When I go to click one of the names in the new targeting window, am I still going to be spammed by "you cannot see your target"? 

If so, just scrap it right now.

Only Lings & little kittens will be affected by that.

Im going to hope this is one of the reasons they didnt have it to show off.  Maybe im naive.

Cactuszach wrote:

When I go to click one of the names in the new targeting window, am I still going to be spammed by "you cannot see your target"? 

If so, just scrap it right now.

Can you elaborate on this?  Just so I know why I might want to be scrapping the new target window?

SKlug wrote:

Cactuszach wrote:

When I go to click one of the names in the new targeting window, am I still going to be spammed by "you cannot see your target"? 

If so, just scrap it right now.

Can you elaborate on this?  Just so I know why I might want to be scrapping the new target window?

sorry but this is actually the first time you heard of this???

He is refering to the fact if anything so much as a pebble is between you and your target and you try to cast on the target, you get the "you cannot see your target" bs.

Pets and other things effect this also i believe.

Anopinion wrote:

sorry but this is actually the first time you heard of this???

He is refering to the fact if anything so much as a pebble is between you and your target and you try to cast on the target, you get the "you cannot see your target" bs.

Pets and other things effect this also i believe.

Of course I'm aware of the issues with our collision system and line of sight, but I wasn't sure there wasn't some other issue the original poster was referring to.  Also, the logic is akin to "if you don't wash my car, I'm not going to bother driving to work."

SKlug wrote:

Anopinion wrote:

sorry but this is actually the first time you heard of this???

He is refering to the fact if anything so much as a pebble is between you and your target and you try to cast on the target, you get the "you cannot see your target" bs.

Pets and other things effect this also i believe.

Of course I'm aware of the issues with our collision system and line of sight, but I wasn't sure there wasn't some other issue the original poster was referring to.  Also, the logic is akin to "if you don't wash my car, I'm not going to bother driving to work."

Just to note. I wasnt condoning the comment about scrapping the window.

But also to note i would BET that there are some out there who just might say such things about their car. Heh

SKlug wrote:

Anopinion wrote:

sorry but this is actually the first time you heard of this???

He is refering to the fact if anything so much as a pebble is between you and your target and you try to cast on the target, you get the "you cannot see your target" bs.

Pets and other things effect this also i believe.

Of course I'm aware of the issues with our collision system and line of sight, but I wasn't sure there wasn't some other issue the original poster was referring to.  Also, the logic is akin to "if you don't wash my car, I'm not going to bother driving to work."

Will that work, cause my car is pretty dirty and i really dont wanna go in today!

Assist works better.

I think what the OP meant was getting spammed by "I don't see anyone by that name around here".

What he actually said makes little sense for a target window.

Zymosis wrote:

I think what the OP meant was getting spammed by "I don't see anyone by that name around here".

What he actually said makes little sense for a target window.

No. He specifically said the cant see target problem. Not sure how much it effects melees, but it plays he-ll for the casters.

I agree that the cannot see your target message makes little sense with a target window. What I would like to see for the new target window though, is unlimited range for the target as long as they are in zone, just like the group window does today. Nothing like trying to click on a target through ui and get the error that there is nobody there with that name. Raid window does this today, and I think HoTT just doesn't say anything at all, just doesn't work.

Can't remove LoS just because people are too lazy to watch where they position themselves (and while it may need some tweaking just because of a pebble being in the way, it doesn't belong in a Target window disgussion).

Expanded target window sounds great, even with today's limitations.

Will the new targeting system allow for spells to default to one of the targets?  As a Paladin this would be incredibly useful I can keep myself on the 2nd target which would allow me to heal myself and continue to do my main job of tanking and building hate.  The targeting system as it is now is incredibly frustrating because things like client lag or Internet lag can cause the the heals to land on unintended targets.

I dream of targeting system like vanguard where as a Paladin I could keep myself on the benfitial target and all targetable healing spells would default to myself.  Even World of Warcraft even has a much more simple solution instead of multiple targets they have a checkbox in the interface options allowing benifitial targetable spells to default to self when a unfriendly is targeted.

SKlug wrote:

Anopinion wrote:

sorry but this is actually the first time you heard of this???

He is refering to the fact if anything so much as a pebble is between you and your target and you try to cast on the target, you get the "you cannot see your target" bs.

Pets and other things effect this also i believe.

Of course I'm aware of the issues with our collision system and line of sight, but I wasn't sure there wasn't some other issue the original poster was referring to.  Also, the logic is akin to "if you don't wash my car, I'm not going to bother driving to work."

Provided you have HoTT and you target something/someone, if they have someone/something on their target and you click that target window so that you are also targetting their target, you often "You cannot see your target" or "I see no one by that name around here" if you are not close enough to the person you are acquiring a target from.

-§ir

Vesla wrote:

I agree that the cannot see your target message makes little sense with a target window. What I would like to see for the new target window though, is unlimited range for the target as long as they are in zone, just like the group window does today. Nothing like trying to click on a target through ui and get the error that there is nobody there with that name. Raid window does this today, and I think HoTT just doesn't say anything at all, just doesn't work.

Can't remove LoS just because people are too lazy to watch where they position themselves (and while it may need some tweaking just because of a pebble being in the way, it doesn't belong in a Target window disgussion).

Expanded target window sounds great, even with today's limitations.

The same issue that exists for the /target command affects the raid window targetting, i.e. it's a 'range' issue. 

Apparently this was implemented way back when people scouting zones for named mobs could simply pop into Emerald Jungle, for example, and type /tar sev and find out if Severilous was up.  But as with most things EQ, when implemeted the dev went overboard and limited its range to like 50 feet, eventually upped to about 100.  IMHO it should be about a 1000 foot range.  But then, I'm a player not a dev.

The line of sight issue exists because the targeting pin is at the mobs feet (or ground level, more precisely) rather than its center of gravity.  How much sense does it make that you can't hit a bat that's hovering 5 feet off the ground because there's a rock underneath it?
/boggle

Cylint_Nyte wrote:

SKlug wrote:

Anopinion wrote:

sorry but this is actually the first time you heard of this???

He is refering to the fact if anything so much as a pebble is between you and your target and you try to cast on the target, you get the "you cannot see your target" bs.

Pets and other things effect this also i believe.

Of course I'm aware of the issues with our collision system and line of sight, but I wasn't sure there wasn't some other issue the original poster was referring to.  Also, the logic is akin to "if you don't wash my car, I'm not going to bother driving to work."

Provided you have HoTT and you target something/someone, if they have someone/something on their target and you click that target window so that you are also targetting their target, you often "You cannot see your target" or "I see no one by that name around here" if you are not close enough to the person you are acquiring a target from.

-§ir

Hopefully the new target window would be more like the group window, where you can target them no matter where that person is at.

What would make the expanded window really useful is if there will be a keyboard command or /slash command that will target the targets in the window, much like F1-F6 does in the group window.  If people could write socials that automatically target stuff in the expanded window and cast on them I think you'll have a real winner.

A new target window?  When was this announced?

All I heard was, "We are breaking more custom UI stuff!" I think I'm in the camp that says, the less UI work you do, the moar excited I get. 

Hulkling wrote:

Cylint_Nyte wrote:

SKlug wrote:

Anopinion wrote:

sorry but this is actually the first time you heard of this???

He is refering to the fact if anything so much as a pebble is between you and your target and you try to cast on the target, you get the "you cannot see your target" bs.

Pets and other things effect this also i believe.

Of course I'm aware of the issues with our collision system and line of sight, but I wasn't sure there wasn't some other issue the original poster was referring to.  Also, the logic is akin to "if you don't wash my car, I'm not going to bother driving to work."

Provided you have HoTT and you target something/someone, if they have someone/something on their target and you click that target window so that you are also targetting their target, you often "You cannot see your target" or "I see no one by that name around here" if you are not close enough to the person you are acquiring a target from.

-§ir

Hopefully the new target window would be more like the group window, where you can target them no matter where that person is at.

That is the intent.

Rytan_the_Wyrmlord wrote:

Hulkling wrote:

Cylint_Nyte wrote:

SKlug wrote:

Anopinion wrote:

sorry but this is actually the first time you heard of this???

He is refering to the fact if anything so much as a pebble is between you and your target and you try to cast on the target, you get the "you cannot see your target" bs.

Pets and other things effect this also i believe.

Of course I'm aware of the issues with our collision system and line of sight, but I wasn't sure there wasn't some other issue the original poster was referring to.  Also, the logic is akin to "if you don't wash my car, I'm not going to bother driving to work."

Provided you have HoTT and you target something/someone, if they have someone/something on their target and you click that target window so that you are also targetting their target, you often "You cannot see your target" or "I see no one by that name around here" if you are not close enough to the person you are acquiring a target from.

-§ir

Hopefully the new target window would be more like the group window, where you can target them no matter where that person is at.

That is the intent.

Ok, I was in the "don't even bother if you're just going to get the 'cannot see...' or 'I see no one..' camp",  but if it follows the group window targetting logic, as a part time cleric raid healer, this will rock!

yar this is going to rock, especially for mezzers and healers.

Hulkling wrote:

yar this is going to rock, especially for mezzers and healers.

Until you get to 'Balancer Event 92001', which is undoubtedly the secret purpose behind this window.

This got a huge applause from crowd when it was explained at FF. I think it will rock

PimpDaddyFroglok wrote:

Hulkling wrote:

yar this is going to rock, especially for mezzers and healers.

Until you get to 'Balancer Event 92001', which is undoubtedly the secret purpose behind this window.

d'oh!  lets hope not

But yeah, this should rock for exsisting balance events as well.

Stratnolan wrote:

If it follow the unlimited range concept from the group window, it will be full of win. As someone else asked though, will you be able to just see the targets name/hp or can you actually cast on one of the new targets while currently on another normal target? As in which target will actually have focus?

If done right, this would be a God send. Make sure to put in new Key Mappable options. So we can set 3 different keys to switch our focus to each of the 3 targets.

Example: I'm a cleric. I want to keep the MT as my main, normal target. I put the Ramp tank on the new special 1st target. Make sure we can set a key that will switch focus to the Ramp Tank so that heals land on him when cast, but we still have the Main tank targeted. Mainly 3 separate keys bindings we can pick that will change the focus of our spell casting or melee to, while keeping our original target.

If it works like I'm thinking, this should be possible. If not, then at least have it so we have Key bindings to switch to those targets fast. Or to swap two targets back and forth. Hit a key, MT goes to special new target #1 and the RT goes to main target. Hit it again, and they swap back. Although I'm really hoping we have the ability to just switch focus of our casting/melee to one of the new targets without changing our actual target.

It will not change the fact that you can only have one target at a time, but I don't see any reason why we couldn't allow hot-keys to target specific slots in the target window.

Enabling multiple targets at once (kindof like Vangaurd) is beyond the scope of this UI enhancement, though I really like Vanguard's system.

Hulkling wrote:

PimpDaddyFroglok wrote:

Hulkling wrote:

yar this is going to rock, especially for mezzers and healers.

Until you get to 'Balancer Event 92001', which is undoubtedly the secret purpose behind this window.

d'oh!  lets hope not

But yeah, this should rock for exsisting balance events as well.

Would be a good window for a Rathe Council 2.0 type event!

SKlug wrote:

Stratnolan wrote:

If it follow the unlimited range concept from the group window, it will be full of win. As someone else asked though, will you be able to just see the targets name/hp or can you actually cast on one of the new targets while currently on another normal target? As in which target will actually have focus?

If done right, this would be a God send. Make sure to put in new Key Mappable options. So we can set 3 different keys to switch our focus to each of the 3 targets.

Example: I'm a cleric. I want to keep the MT as my main, normal target. I put the Ramp tank on the new special 1st target. Make sure we can set a key that will switch focus to the Ramp Tank so that heals land on him when cast, but we still have the Main tank targeted. Mainly 3 separate keys bindings we can pick that will change the focus of our spell casting or melee to, while keeping our original target.

If it works like I'm thinking, this should be possible. If not, then at least have it so we have Key bindings to switch to those targets fast. Or to swap two targets back and forth. Hit a key, MT goes to special new target #1 and the RT goes to main target. Hit it again, and they swap back. Although I'm really hoping we have the ability to just switch focus of our casting/melee to one of the new targets without changing our actual target.

It will not change the fact that you can only have one target at a time, but I don't see any reason why we couldn't allow hot-keys to target specific slots in the target window.

Enabling multiple targets at once (kindof like Vangaurd) is beyond the scope of this UI enhancement, though I really like Vanguard's system.

After posting, I kind of figured there was still a technical limitation preventing multi-focus targeting. But working with what you have, it does sound promising.  The key mapping is a must if at all possible.  3 key map bindings that we can change to any keyboard key we want.  That will switch to each of the targets individually, and another for cycling just the new target windows. 

I didn't catch how many new targets we are getting, but I am thinking three.  So 3 individual mappings for each new target and one for cycling through these 3 only please.

I hope it's quite a bit more than three as I can easily cycle through a dozen targets mezzing.

Will the new target window show the buffs/debuffs on each target simultaneously provided the group leader has the correct leadership AA?  This may make the window a bit large but perhaps there would be an option to expand or collapse the target buffs if you'd like.  It would also be nice for it to visually display how much time is left on buffs too or have the buff start to blink when it is about to wear off.

I almost feel like I want an easy button.

The final number of targets has not yet been determined (we have to gauge the performance impact, etc.) but I was certainly envisioning more than three.

SKlug wrote:

The final number of targets has not yet been determined (we have to gauge the performance impact, etc.) but I was certainly envisioning more than three.

 

Nice!  I thought I had read or heard three somewhere.  Good to hear.  Just keep the Keymap bindings in your thoughts Sklug.  One key for each and a cycle one.

Sklug for CEO!

SKlug wrote:

The final number of targets has not yet been determined (we have to gauge the performance impact, etc.) but I was certainly envisioning more than three.

Why does the phrase "buy more slots with AA's" keep running through my head?

Please note: I'd be ok with that, but not with "buy more slots using Station Cash".

SKlug wrote:

Anopinion wrote:

sorry but this is actually the first time you heard of this???

He is refering to the fact if anything so much as a pebble is between you and your target and you try to cast on the target, you get the "you cannot see your target" bs.

Pets and other things effect this also i believe.

Of course I'm aware of the issues with our collision system and line of sight, but I wasn't sure there wasn't some other issue the original poster was referring to.  Also, the logic is akin to "if you don't wash my car, I'm not going to bother driving to work."

Well a dirty car is cosmetic and doesnt impact the functionality of the vehicle, so Id disagree with your statement but I get your point :p

Sklug I know you and the other devs work extremely hard on this game with few resources and do more than anyone could expect.  Im just saying if the targeting system isnt functional (as it currently has major issues) then the developers time would be better spend elsewhere.

Thank you for responding, and Rytan as well.

Subucnimorning wrote:

Hulkling wrote:

PimpDaddyFroglok wrote:

Hulkling wrote:

yar this is going to rock, especially for mezzers and healers.

Until you get to 'Balancer Event 92001', which is undoubtedly the secret purpose behind this window.

d'oh!  lets hope not

But yeah, this should rock for exsisting balance events as well.

Would be a good window for a Rathe Council 2.0 type event!

The idea is NOT to let anyone pretend that anything makes balancer events ok.  Get with the program!

Why cant u all wait till its comes out, to be so negative ffs!!

KORIK wrote:

Why cant u all wait till its comes out, to be so negative ffs!!

Pattern recognition.

honestly send all yr negativity to where its needed, the devs post here for our benefit.

PimpDaddyFroglok wrote:

Subucnimorning wrote:

Hulkling wrote:

PimpDaddyFroglok wrote:

Hulkling wrote:

yar this is going to rock, especially for mezzers and healers.

Until you get to 'Balancer Event 92001', which is undoubtedly the secret purpose behind this window.

d'oh!  lets hope not

But yeah, this should rock for exsisting balance events as well.

Would be a good window for a Rathe Council 2.0 type event!

The idea is NOT to let anyone pretend that anything makes balancer events ok.  Get with the program!

 

 

Rathe Council isn't really a balancer event, well it is in a sense I suppose. Its the fun kind of balancer event! Balreth = not fun kind of balancer event!

The expanded target window sounds nice.  I am happy to see any enhancement in targetting.

But seriously, the base mouse click target where we point at the mob needs to work better.  I'm sure it is hard, deep in the core of obscure and complex old code no one understands.  No doubt it would be difficult and time consuming.

Any improvement would be most valuable to immersive fun in the game.  It feels crazy how we are all experts at cycle target, assist, health of target's target window, "/target name", last two targets, target next corpse, every kind of bizarre computerish trick but the basic point to the one you want just doesn't work.

Please make mouse click targetting work.  It really is important.  Working right means the model visible under the cursor where you click becomes the new target.

I use mouse clicking all the time, how is it broken? Maybe it's a display setting? Though I do find mouse clicking on corpses to usually be more trouble than it's worth.

I can only assume these new changes to targeting mean the ability to effectively target myself by mouseclicking the player window has been restored!?  Omg, thanks!   It will be nice to not have my target window instantly go blank when I accidentally click the OOC indicator.  I mean ... its been fixed, right?

So as a wizard, may I target everything and then hit the big red nuke button to blow them up?

hunh.  2+ years of that and the devs still haven't figured it out?  guess it's too much time to fix...

Anopinion wrote:

He is refering to the fact if anything so much as a pebble is between you and your target and you try to cast on the target, you get the "you cannot see your target" bs.

Linder wrote:

So as a wizard, may I target everything and then hit the big red nuke button to blow them up?

*ponder*

Ya know, that does open to possibility of multiple target spells that don't require using a classic PBAE or "4 mob targeted AE".  Could give chanters a new mez that hits all targets they have stored, or a new "group" heal for clerics that hits all their stored targets.

Lots of possibilities  there!

Rasper_Helpdesk wrote:

Linder wrote:

So as a wizard, may I target everything and then hit the big red nuke button to blow them up?

*ponder*

Ya know, that does open to possibility of multiple target spells that don't require using a classic PBAE or "4 mob targeted AE".  Could give chanters a new mez that hits all targets they have stored, or a new "group" heal for clerics that hits all their stored targets.

Lots of possibilities  there!

Indeed it does!  I wonder if they could implement any of this into the Tracking skill as well, even as an AA if need be.

Everybody is using the terms "new targeting system" and "multiple targets".

As I understand it, neither term applies (correct me if I am wrong Skrug).

Targeting will occur the same as always, using every mechansim currently available., so no "new targeting system".

The mechanic is that you can "save" the currernt target to a new window, saving X targets. The new windo shows the that target's HP, just like the currrent target window. However, the obs listed in the new window are not really targets, but tracked "bogeys". You can actually target them by clicking on them in the new window, which makes them the "current target", appearing int he real target window. Thus it is not actually "multiple targets" - there is only one target in the target window.

This is the mechanic proposed years ago at summit and everything I heard at Fan Faire indicates that this is what they are implementing. (the original proposal asked that targets be mouse-dragged onto the target tracking window - not sure if they have the capability to do such direct manipulation).

This should be good for healers on raids,to track multiple heal targets' health - they can easily click a tracked player, then cast heal.

Should also be useful for chanters to track mobs that are mezzed.

Dotters may find it useful to track all of the mobs on which one has dots running.

Tanks could watch healers/casters to detect if they're gettign hit and quickly target for /shield

Just a few of the use cases included in the original proposal.

Klonn_Darkbane wrote:

Everybody is using the terms "new targeting system" and "multiple targets".

As I understand it, neither term applies (correct me if I am wrong Skrug).

Targeting will occur the same as always, using every mechansim currently available., so no "new targeting system".

The mechanic is that you can "save" the currernt target to a new window, saving X targets. The new windo shows the that target's HP, just like the currrent target window. However, the obs listed in the new window are not really targets, but tracked "bogeys". You can actually target them by clicking on them in the new window, which makes them the "current target", appearing int he real target window. Thus it is not actually "multiple targets" - there is only one target in the target window.

 

This is the mechanic proposed years ago at summit and everything I heard at Fan Faire indicates that this is what they are implementing. (the original proposal asked that targets be mouse-dragged onto the target tracking window - not sure if they have the capability to do such direct manipulation).

This should be good for healers on raids,to track multiple heal targets' health - they can easily click a tracked player, then cast heal.

Should also be useful for chanters to track mobs that are mezzed.

Dotters may find it useful to track all of the mobs on which one has dots running.

Tanks could watch healers/casters to detect if they're gettign hit and quickly target for /shield

Just a few of the use cases included in the original proposal.

This is essentially correct.

Would be nice to have MARK NPC (1,2,3) and Main Assist's Target

Tack that target into the target windows deticated to those slot available

Not affect their current target but in some of the extra slots available specific for this purpose

Rang007 wrote:

Would be nice to have MARK NPC (1,2,3) and Main Assist's Target

Tack that target into the target windows deticated to those slot available

Not affect their current target but in some of the extra slots available specific for this purpose

Cool idea, but...

Healers want the Assists themselves int he box.

Everybody else wants the assists targets.

But still an excellent idea to automatically track targets of interest.