evilgamer wrote:Assassins are overpowered. Of course when a developer plays one, what do you expect.Always amazed when i see ignorance like this vomitted on the forums. Ooooohhh, a dev plays an assassin so OF COURSE the class is overpowered... and with that in mind are you inferring that the other 23 classes just suck because not one other single dev plays this game at all? Because your over assumptive statement is basically saying that. Since a dev plays an assassin, the class is overpowered. The rest of that train of thought states no other devs play because none of the the other classes are "overpowered". Those darn meanie poo-heads at SOE not letting their employees play the game. Because if they did, we know that all the other classes would be overpowered and if that were so, then the whole game would be overpowered and we'd all be equal. Wouldn't that just be hunky-dory if every single class in the game were exactly equal in every way, shape and form!!! Gosh, Utopia FTW! We're all equal! We're all happy! We are all... THE SAME... /wahL2P FTW to answer the thread's question -- in general assassins will be tops for most situations. However, playing a class strictly based on ego is a poor reason to play that class. It's tantamount to believing your post count makes your smarter. FAIL
Assassins are overpowered. Of course when a developer plays one, what do you expect.
Always amazed when i see ignorance like this vomitted on the forums. Ooooohhh, a dev plays an assassin so OF COURSE the class is overpowered... and with that in mind are you inferring that the other 23 classes just suck because not one other single dev plays this game at all? Because your over assumptive statement is basically saying that. Since a dev plays an assassin, the class is overpowered. The rest of that train of thought states no other devs play because none of the the other classes are "overpowered". Those darn meanie poo-heads at SOE not letting their employees play the game. Because if they did, we know that all the other classes would be overpowered and if that were so, then the whole game would be overpowered and we'd all be equal. Wouldn't that just be hunky-dory if every single class in the game were exactly equal in every way, shape and form!!! Gosh, Utopia FTW! We're all equal! We're all happy! We are all... THE SAME... /wah
L2P FTW
to answer the thread's question -- in general assassins will be tops for most situations. However, playing a class strictly based on ego is a poor reason to play that class. It's tantamount to believing your post count makes your smarter. FAIL
well lets be fair assasins are overpowered due to a situation, and not do to the assasins themselves (and of course their epic which is another story compleatly) fact is assasins are overpwered mainly do to the fact that in major raid guilds trash doesent last for more then 30 seconds which is what assasins do rediculous freaking burst dps, in order for things to even out trash would have to take a good 2 minutes and assasins wouldent see quite so overpowered.regardless he accused assassins of being overpowered not simply becuase a dev plays an assasin but becuase aerilik (sp) the dev in charge of class balance plays an assasin. which once again under normal human curroption may hold true.regardless i think aerilik is a fairly nice guy and wouldent be that quick to accuse him of curroption though i would accuse him of being slightly ignorant about certain class problems and balance in genral. but again being fair, no dev and i mean no dev not a single one in any shape or form posesses the absolute knowlage of every class in the game, no single person does its not possable. fact is their are so many changes that happen to this game many we are not even aware of becuase they may be changes in the server, or base coding fixing a small coding error etc etc, not every tiny change is directly relayed through every single dev, a change in base code on say a spell that isnt hitting for the right amount it says may accedently mess up some other spell for another class and seriously hurt that class. under same token if aerilik changes say paladin dps and paladins have found a way to manipulate this spell and put out higher numbers then expected people flip out and [I cannot control my vocabulary]. does aerilik play a paladin? no so is it directly his fault that players who do nothing all day but play a paladin found a way to use things better then he origonally thought? i dont think it is. its a really tough balancing act. if devs knew exsacally how players would use and how diffrent departments (such as aerilik and whomever do itemization im sure dont pass EVERYTHING through eachother) did everything. classes would be balanced but lets be honest, its not that easy they are humans and can be held accountable true but held accountable as a whole and not just a single person.
well lets be fair assasins are overpowered due to a situation, and not do to the assasins themselves (and of course their epic which is another story compleatly) fact is assasins are overpwered mainly do to the fact that in major raid guilds trash doesent last for more then 30 seconds which is what assasins do rediculous freaking burst dps, in order for things to even out trash would have to take a good 2 minutes and assasins wouldent see quite so overpowered.
regardless he accused assassins of being overpowered not simply becuase a dev plays an assasin but becuase aerilik (sp) the dev in charge of class balance plays an assasin. which once again under normal human curroption may hold true.
regardless i think aerilik is a fairly nice guy and wouldent be that quick to accuse him of curroption though i would accuse him of being slightly ignorant about certain class problems and balance in genral. but again being fair, no dev and i mean no dev not a single one in any shape or form posesses the absolute knowlage of every class in the game, no single person does its not possable. fact is their are so many changes that happen to this game many we are not even aware of becuase they may be changes in the server, or base coding fixing a small coding error etc etc, not every tiny change is directly relayed through every single dev, a change in base code on say a spell that isnt hitting for the right amount it says may accedently mess up some other spell for another class and seriously hurt that class. under same token if aerilik changes say paladin dps and paladins have found a way to manipulate this spell and put out higher numbers then expected people flip out and [I cannot control my vocabulary]. does aerilik play a paladin? no so is it directly his fault that players who do nothing all day but play a paladin found a way to use things better then he origonally thought? i dont think it is. its a really tough balancing act. if devs knew exsacally how players would use and how diffrent departments (such as aerilik and whomever do itemization im sure dont pass EVERYTHING through eachother) did everything. classes would be balanced but lets be honest, its not that easy they are humans and can be held accountable true but held accountable as a whole and not just a single person.
Even setting up a way for the most vocal people in each class to have actual, meaningful input would solve a lot of problems, but nobody is willing to do that.
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...?category_id=41
Wow, took me all of 2 seconds to find the class discusion boards.
Sabutai wrote:Even setting up a way for the most vocal people in each class to have actual, meaningful input would solve a lot of problems, but nobody is willing to do that.http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...?category_id=41Wow, took me all of 2 seconds to find the class discusion boards.
Wow awesome maybe the Devs can find all of them and post in them once in a while, last time Aeralik posted in the wizard forums was 2006 yup 2YEARS AGO!!! I do appreciate your smartash answer but get a clue first and use the thingee in your head before you post.
The players all know where the class discussion boards are, but appearently the Devs dont as they rarely post there. And Sab's comment had nothign to do with having class boards, he was refering to having a vocal knowledgable player from each class have a direct vocal communication route with the Devs so that person could communicate the issues concerning thier prespective class in a meaningful manner instead of the Dev roasts that the boards become.
nirate wrote:Sabutai wrote:Even setting up a way for the most vocal people in each class to have actual, meaningful input would solve a lot of problems, but nobody is willing to do that.http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...?category_id=41Wow, took me all of 2 seconds to find the class discusion boards.Wow awesome maybe the Devs can find all of them and post in them once in a while, last time Aeralik posted in the wizard forums was 2006 yup 2YEARS AGO!!! I do appreciate your smartash answer but get a clue first and use the thingee in your head before you post. The players all know where the class discussion boards are, but appearently the Devs dont as they rarely post there. And Sab's comment had nothign to do with having class boards, he was refering to having a vocal knowledgable player from each class have a direct vocal communication route with the Devs so that person could communicate the issues concerning thier prespective class in a meaningful manner instead of the Dev roasts that the boards become.
A "dev roast" as you put it, seems to happen anywhere the devs post, be it here or in the class forums. I was just pointing out that Sabutai perfectly described the class forums and then asked for another board that did the exact same thing. Trust me I know very well the devs dont ever read the class forums, my main is a SK.
It blows my mind that SOE even conciders trying to appeal to previous patrons when the devs don't respond to things clearly broken and or underpowered as some of the classes are. I could point to one of my own threads, items clearly broken and not one dev has even gazed it its general direction. How do you think I feel? Last I checked ignoring problems never made them go away and ignoring your player base only lowers your paycheck.
Noaani wrote:Assuming perfect group setup, appropriate gear and equal player skillHow do you judge "equal player skill", when you're comparing a Swashy to a Wizzie? Or, for that matter, how do you judge their "appropriate gear", relative to each other?I can't help thinking that threads like this are entirely too full of theory craft.
Assuming perfect group setup, appropriate gear and equal player skill
How do you judge "equal player skill", when you're comparing a Swashy to a Wizzie? Or, for that matter, how do you judge their "appropriate gear", relative to each other?
I can't help thinking that threads like this are entirely too full of theory craft.
I judge "equal player skill" based on how I play. Using a formulatic approach to each combat art and spell a class has, knowing exactly when to use each, the benefits and drawbacks of each in any situation, and an equally complete understanding of every encounter in the game, what chanegs the encounter may undertake, what situations you will be put in with that encounter, and the ability to cross referance this knowledge of spells and combat arts with the knowledge of encounters to use the most suited spell or combat art the class has at any and every single point in any encounter (seems like a lot to ask, but an hour playing excel when you have all your masters will give you all the info you need).
In this case, appropriate gear is the best avalible for the class and slot from non contested mobs. If both a wizard and swashbuckler have the best avalible gear for the encounter (using the above knowledge), and t he gear on one means they are able to out DPS the other, then that is an extention of class balance.
Based on the above, assassins out DPS everyone else by a large amount, followed closely by other melee classes, with various casters just behind.
nirate wrote:It blows my mind that SOE even conciders trying to appeal to previous patrons when the devs don't respond to things clearly broken and or underpowered as some of the classes are. I could point to one of my own threads, items clearly broken and not one dev has even gazed it its general direction. How do you think I feel? Last I checked ignoring problems never made them go away and ignoring your player base only lowers your paycheck.I am well aware of the issues with many classes and I do in fact read the class forums. The lack of response is often because if I do respond it sets expectations. Like for rangers, we acknowledged issues multiple times. So every update that came along, they asked where their fixes were and started a flurry of new threads. Coercers on the other hand I knew all along they were having issues and it turned up as a pleasant surprise because I had a few days free on my schedule. I'm not ignoring any classes or favoring any. Like I have said a few times recently, in the short term there are no big changes occuring as part of a Live Update. If I get some free time to do something then I will be the first to let you know but just because I don't reply in every forum or every thread doesn't mean I am ignoring you or your class.
I am well aware of the issues with many classes and I do in fact read the class forums. The lack of response is often because if I do respond it sets expectations. Like for rangers, we acknowledged issues multiple times. So every update that came along, they asked where their fixes were and started a flurry of new threads. Coercers on the other hand I knew all along they were having issues and it turned up as a pleasant surprise because I had a few days free on my schedule. I'm not ignoring any classes or favoring any. Like I have said a few times recently, in the short term there are no big changes occuring as part of a Live Update. If I get some free time to do something then I will be the first to let you know but just because I don't reply in every forum or every thread doesn't mean I am ignoring you or your class.
How about a stickied thread at the top of either the combat forum or spells, combat arts and abilities forum that is along the lines of Domino's "State of the Tradeskill" thread.
If you post all in one area the issues you consider in need of attention, then no one class can argue that they are not geting the fixes they need, such as rangers in your example. If you put up a list of everything you are working on, everything you hope to work on, and everything you have reciently worked on, most decient human beings will leave you alone moreso than they are now (exceptions to every rule).
Class balance may prove to be too volatile a subject for this type of approach, but as neither you nor Lockeye kept players particularly well informed, compaired to others, an experiment like this may well be warrented.
Aeralik wrote:I am well aware of the issues with many classes and I do in fact read the class forums. The lack of response is often because if I do respond it sets expectations. Like for rangers, we acknowledged issues multiple times. So every update that came along, they asked where their fixes were and started a flurry of new threads. Coercers on the other hand I knew all along they were having issues and it turned up as a pleasant surprise because I had a few days free on my schedule. I'm not ignoring any classes or favoring any. Like I have said a few times recently, in the short term there are no big changes occuring as part of a Live Update. If I get some free time to do something then I will be the first to let you know but just because I don't reply in every forum or every thread doesn't mean I am ignoring you or your class. How about a stickied thread at the top of either the combat forum or spells, combat arts and abilities forum that is along the lines of Domino's "State of the Tradeskill" thread.If you post all in one area the issues you consider in need of attention, then no one class can argue that they are not geting the fixes they need, such as rangers in your example. If you put up a list of everything you are working on, everything you hope to work on, and everything you have reciently worked on, most decient human beings will leave you alone moreso than they are now (exceptions to every rule).Class balance may prove to be too volatile a subject for this type of approach, but as neither you nor Lockeye kept players particularly well informed, compaired to others, an experiment like this may well be warrented.
Umm.. Not bad idea but I am sure any dev doesn't want to be compared to another dev but the way it is now it seems that he may be picking favorites but probaly not. I will say this area of the game is so vast comapred to tradeskills when Aeralik has to tend to 24 classes wheres Domnio has 9...opps 11 counting Tinkering & transmuting. Any changes he makes so will effect the others classes a majority of the time but if domino makes a change to tradeskill class it's probaly not going effect another tradeskill so he has to weigh pros and cons. At least give him credit when due and hope he sees there is issues with some of the others classes and fixes them soon.
Forgive me here Aeralik but as for when you have time makes me wonder for isn't your job to take care of the 24 classes? I am not totally sure of the inner workings of your total job there so if you have some other areas you take care of too, then disregard this.
I'm not ignoring any classes or favoring any. Like I have said a few times recently, in the short term there are no big changes occuring as part of a Live Update. If I get some free time to do something then I will be the first to let you know but just because I don't reply in every forum or every thread doesn't mean I am ignoring you or your class.
Aeralik wrote:I'm not ignoring any classes or favoring any. Like I have said a few times recently, in the short term there are no big changes occuring as part of a Live Update. If I get some free time to do something then I will be the first to let you know but just because I don't reply in every forum or every thread doesn't mean I am ignoring you or your class. I'm sorry but, "I don't have time to address balance issues" isn't really a valid excuse. If you find the requirements of your job surpass your available time, it's on your head to approach your boss and ask him for additional resources.You have to know it dosn't exactly look stellar to have the class YOU play sitting several thousand DPS above all others in all instances.Melee hit-rates were broken, and you found time to address those. Unfortunately the fix you put in place broke many others in the process.Seeing as how you didn't do it right the first time, one would think you'd prioritize a fix. And as I said above, if time really is an issue you should be sourcing help from inside the company.I think you'll find most of us are pretty reasonable if you take the time to respond to issues, even if that response is a vague timeline in which you *may* look into it.
Aeralik,
We do appreciate your input and that you are reading the threads. But, please bear in mind that we put a lot of time and effort into this game and significant changes like this one can have a seriously negative effect on our gameplay. Not being wanted or necessary on raid rosters because of a change to resist rates is very disappointing. Please reconsider and find some time to change things back to the way they were because this is really no fun at all.
