Skywarrior wrote:

Sure he did.  Here, I'll restructure the sentence for you so it is more clear:  "I don't see how they assisted at ALL in testing the game (because) They were a guild that couldn't clear Labs..."  Does that help?

Now you are just being rude, just because you reworded his statement does NOT mean he in any way stated that raid testing is the only part of testing that is done on the test server.

And you know what? I agree with his original statement, how did they test the *raiding* part when they got their buddy to hand gear to them? Puhlease...

You are correct.  I was being sarcastic and probably came across as condescending and rude.  For that I do (sincerely) apologize.  The thrust of my point, however, I stand by.  But it highlights something about language and communication that a lot of folks tend to marginalize and think unimportant.  Words, and their context within a sentence and paragraph, actually have symbolic meaning.  If we, as individuals, insist on using our own individualized interpretations of what that symbology means then we, as a society, will never come to grips with the real problems and issues that surround us because we will continue to just talk around each other.

Even this thread contains points of view that radically differ on exactly what Bruce meant when he wrote what he did. 

9:42 am and Unhallowed Triad is still on Unrest, granted they only have 5 characters on the server right now.
But how much of that Plat/Gear that was brought over from test being dumped into Unrest economy as we
speak.

I am glad I don't see any Unholy Trinity on, but unless the second guild is wiped, there is still a problem here

Nitra - now back to the studio

Cadori Seraphim wrote:

Kethaera wrote:

Gutwrench wrote:

They were a guild that couldn't clear Labs... I don't see how they assisted at ALL in testing the game, so it's all a bunch of crap.

What?! I don't know where you got that information, but of course they cleared Labs. Even my Alliance cleared Labs, and we never pretended to even be able to do what UT could do.

That said, I don't know why you think raid ability == testing ability. There's a lot more to the game than just raiding, ya know.

I believe it was over on eq2flames where this information can be found. As most of the information and screenshots can also be found.
I for one believe it.
I mean, how can you gain skill by one shotting mobs with GM powers?

No, testing ability does not mean raiding.. but raiding is part of what needs testing. I recall reading somewhere that SOE needed more high lvl testers for this reason. Surely even YOU know this? Were you not the Mod who stepped down over this whole fiasco?

Anyhow, no where in this statement did he say the only part of testing the game was raiding.

This information is based off the fact there is an ss of one of their guild members talking about wiping 75 times before they cleared Labs.  Same guild now has loot off mayong Mistmoore, which they must have on farm status, because one of their Assassins was transferred, while still wearing healer shoulders off him.

Their raid capability has indeed increased massively over the last couple of years.


Either that or....

Mr Wolfie Wrote:

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

This would be why proper businesses put procedures in place to learn from mistakes and ensure that they never happen again.

Your suggestion would have the business fail as it drives away all its customers. Is that what you want?

The rest of us, offering constructive criticism, would rather see QA systems put in place to ensure a happy, fair and productive future for EQ2.

2. Business is still prone to mistakes as they are ran by human beings regardless of policies or procedures.

3.Everyone isn't going to leave regardless of how some people are trying to spin this.

4. Most of the criticism is in no way constructive to anyone and especially not the issue at hand, and if you are told that a QA system is put in place and is monitoring the game but you no longer Trust SOE ( As most that are posting here as the motivation to quit the game) what difference will that truly make?

The whole thing started in October.  Ventrillo is buzzing as everyone is discussing the woes of Test Server.  If we can't get the 'testers' to help with EoF content because they shun all of UT due to the inability to let past transgressions of the past, that were handled by SoE yet will never be forgotton, how are we going to Test anything in RoK? Heck we never seen a EoF contested, Never cleared FTH, MMIS or EH we lacked key classes and numbers.

We should just start over somewhere...

We chose unrest.

Re-rolling at level one and restarting over is hard, especially in a new server.  How dedicated is this group of friends who can forgive and enjoy each others company?  Enough that many actually paid to move from other Live servers that had toons scattered around in live before they found test server.

Yes, we had asked if it was at all possible to move willing to pay the transfer fees, but we never expected it to come about.

Forward to December, many of us that restarted in October, I was a late comer, not starting over at level one on unrest until October 25, are now 50+ in level, established in the community, tradeskillers working hard as the adventurers and we even have dinged the new guild to level 30! My new Kuulei was level 59 with 87 aa's! Over 500 quests completed!  She was also a t5 carpenter.  Then the 'word' came back that they 'scrubbed' and moved us. It was NOT a slap in the face to other testers.  A request was granted 6 weeks after the fact. Did they put in a request? No.

Forward to Present.

Everything I have done is gone. My copied toons as well as the one I leveled the hard way, which was never given a thing by my copies because that wouldn't be right and the armor she wore, spells scribed all purchased through consignment from local crafters with hard earned cash she earned on her own.

Imagine enjoying the game and your friends so much, nothing will deter you from playing, not the drama, transgressions or the fact that you are labled as a cheat by association.  I Had to start over at level 1 adventurer and tradeskiller last night (she is level 10 now).  So who lost the most here?  The posters that cried 'my feelings are hurt', lied about our gear, lied about our cash (come on now, those that are on or have been on test can see we have no economy so what the heck are we going to spend 3 years accumulation of coin on?) or the ones that have lost everything they have worked hard for since November of 2004?

Would I ever return to test? Never.  Who would want to return to a close-minded community that I help build but refused to play with me because of my tag?

Good luck to those I still consider friends and still call me a friend.

Respectfully request the Moderator to lock this thread!

if you are told that a QA system is put in place and is monitoring the game but you no longer Trust SOE ( As most that are posting here as the motivation to quit the game) what difference will that truly make?

No. What you've demonstrated here is favoritism. And I still don't agree that favoritism has to be a conscious act of malice against everyone else rather than an act of friendship to those benefiting from it. Now, the actual product of favoritism, once it's found out, is obviously going to be resentment from those who didn't benefit. But that doesn't mean that the impulse must be to harm those people or create some big evil scheme by which one group of people becomes unassailable members of royalty lording over the masses. I believe Froech when he says there was no malice in the act. And I respect him for making that distinction, rather than portraying it like some evil scheme when it, in fact, probably wasn't.

Oh, and I agree completely with you that it questions the integrity of the game environment. I'm not defending UT's transfer to Unrest. I disagree with it on several counts. I believe that the outcomes of this action are, on the whole, negative, even if they were meant as an act of goodwill toward the people who benefited. But Froech said they are going to reverse the process. I'll believe him until it becomes apparent that it hasn't happened. And for me, that is enough. I want there to be ongoing inquiries into the matter of favoritism on SOE's end, but as far as I'm concerned, once this transfer is reversed, justice has been done in this specific case, and the book will essentially be closed on it.

Kulei, look at what has happened as a war. Both sides think they are correct. Innocent people get caught in the crossfire. They are morned... and things move on with the end results of the war.

Sorry if you were a casualty. This time around, unfortunately, you were standing on the wrong side of the line, even if non of this was of any fault of your own. My hat's off to you.

The whole thing started in October.  Ventrillo is buzzing as everyone is discussing the woes of Test Server.  If we can't get the 'testers' to help with EoF content because they shun all of UT due to the inability to let past transgressions of the past, that were handled by SoE yet will never be forgotton, how are we going to Test anything in RoK? Heck we never seen a EoF contested, Never cleared FTH, MMIS or EH we lacked key classes and numbers.

We should just start over somewhere...

We chose unrest.

Re-rolling at level one and restarting over is hard, especially in a new server.  How dedicated is this group of friends who can forgive and enjoy each others company?  Enough that many actually paid to move from other Live servers that had toons scattered around in live before they found test server.

Yes, we had asked if it was at all possible to move willing to pay the transfer fees, but we never expected it to come about.

Forward to December, many of us that restarted in October, I was a late comer, not starting over at level one on unrest until October 25, are now 50+ in level, established in the community, tradeskillers working hard as the adventurers and we even have dinged the new guild to level 30! My new Kuulei was level 59 with 87 aa's! Over 500 quests completed!  She was also a t5 carpenter.  Then the 'word' came back that they 'scrubbed' and moved us. It was NOT a slap in the face to other testers.  A request was granted 6 weeks after the fact. Did they put in a request? No.

Forward to Present.

Everything I have done is gone. My copied toons as well as the one I leveled the hard way, which was never given a thing by my copies because that wouldn't be right and the armor she wore, spells scribed all purchased through consignment from local crafters with hard earned cash she earned on her own.

Imagine enjoying the game and your friends so much, nothing will deter you from playing, not the drama, transgressions or the fact that you are labled as a cheat by association.  I Had to start over at level 1 adventurer and tradeskiller last night (she is level 10 now).  So who lost the most here?  The posters that cried 'my feelings are hurt', lied about our gear, lied about our cash (come on now, those that are on or have been on test can see we have no economy so what the heck are we going to spend 3 years accumulation of coin on?) or the ones that have lost everything they have worked hard for since November of 2004?

Would I ever return to test? Never.  Who would want to return to a close-minded community that I help build but refused to play with me because of my tag?

Good luck to those I still consider friends and still call me a friend.

I've been quietly following this thread and waiting on SOE's response. And I find it lacking.

1. What disciplinary action is being taken against the person who ordered the move?
This is the most stupid decision made by an employee at SOE so far ~ and that's saying something. I cannot believe that someone could be so shortsighted to think that every player that has worked hard for what they have acheived wouldn't be upset having characters (nay, a whole guild!) moved to their server from Test.
Not only were rules, set in stone, broken ~ but this has led to a breakdown in trust between PAYING CUSTOMERS and you, our service providers.
You seem to think you're GMs hosting a p'n'p game. You're not! You don't have the right to tell us what's right and wrong, to change the rules on the fly and to show favouritism.
This is a business. You are taking millions of dollars per year to provide a service. Get with it, and let's start seeing some professionalism. We pay your wages, we deserve your utmost respect, honesty and transparency of process.


2. What system is being put in place to ensure that favouritism and "acts of kindness" can never again be enacted without full disclosure to the rest of the playerbase?
Again, you seem to think you're all in some sort of club and you can do what you like. It is incredibly unprofessional behaviour.
Not only that, but you frequently show favouritism ~ allowing those people who can manage to get to Fan-Faire quick entry into Beta. Picking and choosing who gets in and when ~ thereby allowing them a HUGE advantage when expansions go live.
And those people are the ones who benefit when they get to keep the item that is too uber for the rest of us and gets nerfed ~ 'cos sometimes the old items don't get changed.
Unless the playing field is level, for everyone, across the GLOBE, SOE isn't doing a professional job.
There is no excuse for allowing one player advantages over another.

You people need a rude awakening.
You run this game like it's being held in the back room of a dingy comicbook store.
Your work is frequently shoddy and usually put live without any care for the consequences.
You think RoK was a success. I guess that's because by your standards, it is!
But servers crashing, lag in all zones, massive loading times, terrible itemisation, boring or unfrequented heroic zones, followed by several instances of miscommunication, doesn't paint a good picture.

You need to start acting like professionals, or fire Domino, because she makes the rest of you look like a pack of ****wits.

This is a business. One involving millions of dollars.
Our custom needs to be treated with the respect it deserves.

As far as I'm concerned, once demonstrable procedures have been put in place to ensure that developers and "executives" cannot influence the live servers to the benefit of "friends", once rules that we are all supposed to abide by are rules that apply to everyone, and we ALL see that happening, is when I'll be satisfied.

For example, when a developer is out playing with "friends" and sees a guildmate with a name that breaks the EULA, it's his responsibility to report it. Not ignore it because the player is someone he has an acquaintance with. It's a RULE and the rules need to apply to everyone equally.

This incident has tainted the reputation of SOE, which wasn't that great to begin with. Now positive and VERY public action needs to be taken.

Forward to Present.

Everything I have done is gone. My copied toons as well as the one I leveled the hard way, which was never given a thing by my copies because that wouldn't be right and the armor she wore, spells scribed all purchased through consignment from local crafters with hard earned cash she earned on her own.

Imagine enjoying the game and your friends so much, nothing will deter you from playing, not the drama, transgressions or the fact that you are labled as a cheat by association.  I Had to start over at level 1 adventurer and tradeskiller last night (she is level 10 now).  So who lost the most here?  The posters that cried 'my feelings are hurt', lied about our gear, lied about our cash (come on now, those that are on or have been on test can see we have no economy so what the heck are we going to spend 3 years accumulation of coin on?) or the ones that have lost everything they have worked hard for since November of 2004?

Would I ever return to test? Never.  Who would want to return to a close-minded community that I help build but refused to play with me because of my tag?

Good luck to those I still consider friends and still call me a friend.

Maybe you should have been concerned about what wearing the guild tag meant. Guilds earn a reputation be it bad or good as a result of their actions and the perception of same. You chose to associate with a guild with a bad reputation -- consequently you get to share in that reputation. You made your own bed so no point in crying about it.

As for lying about gear and cash -- did you even bother to check out the images posted on EQ2flames of gear Luckyx and Dysisx has for sale on the broker? Or the fact that Luckyx still has an alt running around on Unrest with a name in violation of the naming standards??

Fairly or unfairly, in this world you are judged by the company you keep --  You can't roll in a pile of manure and not expect some of the odor to stick to you.

I am afraid I am not moved by your sob story - you brought it on yourself.

I agree Menaelin. Its a game, if you don't like it any longer try something else, don't bash everyone at SOE because someone did something that was misconstrued as an act of malice to everyone on Test when if you look at it objectively you may not agree with it but you can see how it could have happened. Everyone does things that in hindsight after it has blown up in their face they wish they had of done things differently. Sometimes it is what it is & you just need to move on.