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The New Wizard Bug/Issue List
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At Ilucide's prompting, and for whatever good it might do, I'm starting this new thread for bugs and issues affecting our class. I'll try to keep it updated, if people want to contribute.

Last updated with issues: August 22, 2008

BUGS AFFECTING THE WIZARD CLASS (and/or Caster classes in general)

  • Spell: Rays of Disintegration: The main issue with this spell comes when a wizard is wielding the Mythical version of the epic weapon (and, hypothetically, under any condition that would allow for Spell Double Attack). If, when casting Rays, you are "lucky" enough to get a spell double attack, you will re-cast the spell (for yourself only) but with full cast timer, effectively losing another 4 seconds while it goes off. The problem occurs because the initial "cast time" of Rays is instant, and that is what is taken into consideration with the double attack, but the secondary cast time remains unaffected. Possible solution would be to class Rays as a beneficial spell (since it's a group "buff" anyway), and as such remove its chances of double attacking. Other solution would be to add an initial cast time to Rays, but then make the group effect (the actual damage portion of it) instant. This would also, I believe, please a lot of casters who find their casting orders affected while they wait for Rays to finish casting.
  • Spell: Ro's Coil (and its predecessors): The live update that added Focus damage to the game changes the spell lines for all mages that deal a small amount of unresistable damage over time. Ro's Coil is the T8 mage version. The spell description still says it deals heat damage, both in the spell descriptor and the spell effects. This is an issue because the damage this spell line does is no longer increasable by means of debuffs.
  • Spell: Storming Tempest (and its predecessors): This damage over time spell is missing its last tick. Unmodified, this spell has a duration of 48 seconds, and the damage is on an 8 second timer. When cast, this spell does its initial damage, then begins with the damage over time portion as expected (which is supposed to tick 6 times), for a total of 7 hits (initial hit + 6 ticks). After 40 seconds, and the 5th tick of the spell, it continues counting down the last 8 seconds, as expected, but when the timer reaches zero, and the final tick is expected to go off, nothing happens and the spell simply finishes. The reason this is considered a bug as oppose to working as intended, other than every other DoT in the game working the way we collectively believe this spell should, is that if you cancel the spell after 40 seconds, but before the spell expires at 48 seconds, you get the mysterious 6th tick of damage, which would have been missing if you did not manually cancel it.
  • Spell: Storming Tempest (and its predecessors): Stacking issues exist with this spell when more than one wizards cast it on the same mob. The spell seems to overwrite itself, so that only the last person to cast it will be credited with the damage of subsequent ticks. This issue seems to disregard spell quality, so an Adept III Storming Tempest will overwrite a Master I version. For more information (and parser examples), you can look at the thread on EQ2flames listed at the end of this post.
  • Spell: Glacialshield (and its predecessors): Stacking issues exist with this spell (though, I am unsure whether those are intentional or not). If more than one wizards cast this on the same person, only the last one casting will receive credit for the damage. Spell quality seems to be irrelevant, as in the above issue, and a lower quality spell will overwrite a higher quality spell if cast after it. For more information, the EQ2flames post mentioned above is also relevant for this issue.
  • Topography: This is mostly an issue with zone mechanics/geometry, but can be seen in pretty much any place where there are stairs -- even 2-3 steps are enough. Examples include VoES, Temple of Kor'Sha, Chardok, and KC. It seems that mobs that stand on the steps will be considered out-of-range, or out of line of sight, for spells and abilities. This includes non-encounter (Blue) AEs, as well as encounter (Green) AEs. The best example for this is in VoES, where there are lots of groups of mobs, and when standing on such spots half the group will take damage from AEs, while the other half will remain at full HP. Other than damage spells, this seems to affect group taunts and similar abilities, making agro control an issue at times.
  • Game mechanics: Intelligence that goes over the hard cap (Level x 15 + base stat -- which usually translates around 1220 at level 80) will negatively impact total power. This seems to be a purely mathematical bug, in that the diminishing returns curve formula used does not stop at 0, when the cap is reached, but continues into the negative when the cap is exceeded. This is easily reproduced by having a character with over the cap intelligence equip and unequip an item with +Intelligence but no +Power, easily demonstrating that total power will Increase when intelligence is lowered (toward the cap). This bug does not seem to affect other areas where Intelligence is a contributing factor, like spell damage.

 

ISSUES AFFECTING THE WIZARD CLASS (and to some extent Casters in general)

  • Resist rates in T8 raid zones and dependency on other classes for debuffs: The changes made in LU43, ostensibly to resolve an issue with melee classes unable to hit orange-con mobs in VP, but which ended up affecting every single T8 x4 raid mob (yellow, orange, in VP or not) have had a significant impact on wizards, as well as all other casters. To clarify more: This is not only an issue affecting how many of our spells are completely resisted. This affects the overall performance of our spells even if they land, due to increased wisdom and resistance scores on the mobs.
  • Inability to properly debuff mobs: This ties up with the above issue, and mainly affects our Ice Spears spell (and its predecessors). While it was stated that, due to the resist changes in LU 43, debuffs would become harder to resist, to help balance out the changes, this spell -- one of only TWO debuffs we get (the other being Furnace of Ro, and quite unwieldy when it comes to debuffing mobs properly) -- has had no changes done to its resistability, often resulting in sequential full resists at the beginning of a fight.
  • Fabled chest piece bonuses: Both the EoF and the VP fabled set for wizards have had a focus to a spell that a raiding wizard uses rarely, if at all (the single-target deagro spell Blip / Cease (in T7). While it is too late to change now (no one was listening when we complained about it in EoF, or with the VP set "upgrades"... so we missed out on getting something worthwhile this time round... thanks), having some sort of assurance that the next end game set robe for a wizard will have some thought put into it would be appreciated.
  • Tied to the above issue, are the effects on our Mythical and VP set robe, namely +5max power on weapon and +10max power on robe. We really don't need that power on raids, as its only benefit would be to a Manaburn-spec wizard. Other mages get +10 cast speed and +10 reuse on spells (T8 Robe of Al'Kabor from Avatars aka contested mobs has +10 reuse on top of its proc and absolutely every wizard would love to get it just because of reuse). Change +5max power on our weapon to +5 cast speed, and +10max power on robe for 10 reuse or at least 10 cast time. This way, us wizards, at least will use it.
  • General caster buffs versus melee buffs: Casters, in general, have significantly fewer means of gaining DPS through buffs than melee classes do. This is not simply a case of melee having a greater variety of buff types at their disposal (haste, +DPS, +AE attack, +CA damage, +crit etc), but is a case of those buffs being more easily available than caster oriented buffs. As an example, look at how many classes have a melee proc that can be placed on others versus how many classes have a spell proc that can be placed on others. Now do the same with all melee buffs vs all caster buffs, factor in how many characters can receive these buffs, and then try and explain the equality in the situation.
  • Skills not affecting casting ability properly: This refers to our Disruption (mainly) and other casting skills. As raiding wizards we can see our Disruption skill well over 500. That would, if it worked properly, mean that we'd be casting at an effective level of 100. This is most certainly not the case - or, if it is, its effect is so minimal as to not be seen. Certainly, if (for whatever reason) our skill is lowered, we will feel the effect (more outright resists, etc), but higher skill levels do not bring along similar benefits.

 

SUGGESTIONS FOR FIXING AFOREMENTIONED ISSUES AND MAKING THE CLASS MORE FUN

  • Iceshape/Fireshape AA choices: Currently these achievements give the wizard two new abilities (Iceshape and Fireshape respectively). I would suggest that instead they are made to affect the spell lines for Frigid Gift / Surge of Ro, giving them the ability to change all spells cast for their duration into cold/fire spells respectively. This would not only save (a little) time, since these abilities currently have a cast time, but would also make it easier since there would be no need to macro them (often ending in spell queues messing up the casting of one or the other). (To clarify, this suggestion would work similar to the current "Enhance: Magi's Shielding" AA)
  • Debuffs: Currently, for the most part, casters are severely dependent on scouts for proper debuffs on mobs. This is a problem for two reasons: First of all, scouts get an initial "bonus" on their DPS (since their hits get to land first, before spells are able to land, or at least land at full effect), and secondly, because scouts will invariably care to debuff mobs for their own damage types rather than the mages. Suggestions on fixing this issue include either giving us the ability to debuff mobs properly ourselves (Ice Spears is a nice start and all,butit gets outright resisted half the time when we try to use it to debuff an un-debuffed mob anyway), or split the debuff ability. Let casters - and only casters - be able to debuff melee-type resistances/mitigation, and let melees be able to debuff caster-type resistances. That way at least we'll all be interdependent, and float or sink together.
  • Spell: Furnace of Ro (and its predecessors): This spell can be rather unwieldy to use in some (most) combat situations. A simple suggestion for this spell, to make it a little easier to use but without removing the flavor of it being a stationary pet, is to have it appear under the target mob or the target group/raid member instead of under ourselves.
  • Spell: Converge (and its predecessors): This spell, which is a minor hate transfer on the MT, as well as a power proc for the MT and caster, does not stack with other versions of this spell, or the warlock variant. This was presumably due to there being no hate transfer cap when the hate transfer portion of this spell was added. As there is now a hate transfer cap, making this spell stack either with multiple instances of itself or at a minimum with the warlock version, would give sorcerers a greater means of power regeneration (as minor as it is), without having the ability to overload the tank with hate transfers. Also, increasing the hate transfer of the spell would help sorcerers as well. Currently, scouts not only have the best means of shedding agro, but also are much more likely to survive getting agro on themselves in the first place.
  • Ability: Static Discharge (2nd ability in Sorceror strength line): Very limited in its use. Hits only 4 targets in encounter in front of you with long cast/recast timers. Change it to 8 targets and 1 second cast timer and 15 seconds recast without of the requirement of mobs being in front of you.
  • Spell: Numbing Cold: Still only the T6 version of this spell exists. Any chance of getting a T8 version? Might be with same stats, but at least we will be able to get Master 1 version of it.
  • Spell: Ro's Blade (and its predecessors): This spell's effect should be brought up to par with the Warlock version (which currently does more damage). Also would be nice if it could be changed to proc off of any attack (spells and ranged as well), rather than just on melee attacks.
  • Skills: As per the skill issue mentioned above, make casting skills mean something again.
  • Spell: Rays of Disintegration: Currently this spell is of limited usefulness, not only because of the bug with Double Spell Attack, but mainly because of the frustration it causes other casters (especially other sorcerers) in our group. My suggestion for this spell would be to make it either a) able to be cast in paralel with other spells (therefore not interrupting other casters), b) have a cast time only for the wizard, then be an instant-cast spell/interrupt for all other casters, or c) give it a better timing option (i.e. we cast Rays, it's up for 5 seconds before it starts interrupting people). Also, all things considered, the cast time of Rays should be at least half of what it is now for the damage it does.
  • I want to add one last thing before closing, mostly in response to Ilucide's post on the Warlock forum regarding the resist rates on casters. The main issue here is not only outright resists, and it's not only lowered efficiency of our spells due to the higher wisdom/resistance scores of the mobs. The issue here is the fact that as soon as we hear the dreaded "ping", and know our spell was resisted we know that we just lost 2, 3, 4 or 5 seconds of that fight. Completely wasted. A melee who has a CA miss, or resisted, will still get a significant amount of damage in through subsequent auto-attacks (Yes, I am aware that those might miss also, but they come so fast that even if some do miss, they will still end up doing SOME damage). When you take into consideration the buffs, items and abilities that melee classes get to further increase the effectiveness and damage of their auto-attacks (+crit, +double attack, +procs, and of course the +x5 flurry that Assassins get from their Mythical, to name a few), you will see that even a failed CA attack does not mean that the melee class just sits there looking stupid. I really doubt that the mechanics of the game can be changed to allow casters to have an effective magical "auto-attack", but at least realize that when you affect our spell hit rates, or effectiveness, you are crippling us much more than you would a melee class by changing around their CAs.

These are all the issues, suggestions and bugs that I have seen so far mentioned in this thread. I will update the post later on if more are mentioned.

For further reading, the following threads might be usefull:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=419860  (this is one of the best on our issues with GU 43)

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=421901

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=418679

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=412072

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=424687 (this topic specifically discussing the Int/power pool bug)

http://www.eq2flames.com/wizards/30...ing-issues.html (this topic specifically discussing the stacking issues with Storming Tempest and Glacialshield)

 

D.


Message edited by Mythal_EQ2 on 08/22/2008 12:54:06.



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Bug: Storming Tempets line.

This damage over time spell is missing its last tick.

Unmodified, this spell has a duration of 48 seconds, and the damage is on an 8 second timer. When cast, this spell does its initial damage, then begins with the damage over time portion as expected. After 40 seconds, and the 6th tick of the spell, it continues counting down the last 8 seconds, as expected, but when the timer reaches zero, and the final tick is expected to go off, nothing happens and the spell simply finishes.

The reason this is considered a bug as oppose to working as intended, other than every other DoT in the game working the way we collectivly believe this spell should, is that if you cancel the spell after 40 seconds, but before the spell expires at 48 seconds, you get the mysterious 7th tick of damage, which would have been missing if you did not manually cancel it.

Issue: Ro's Coil line.

The live update that added Focus damage to the game changes the spell lines for all mages that deal a small amount of unresistable damage over time. Ro's Coil is the T8 mage version. The spell description still says it deals heat damage, both in the spell descriptor and the spell effects. This is an issue because the damage this spell line does is no longer increasable by means of debuffs.

Suggestion: Furnace of Ro.

As was posted above, Furnace of Ro can be rather unwieldly to use in some combat situations. A simple suggestion for this spell, to make it a little easier to use but without removing the flavour of it being a stationary pet, is to have it appear under the target mob or the target group/raid member instead of under ourselves.

Suggestion: Converge.

This spell, which is a minor hate transfer on the MT, as well as a power proc for the MT and caster, does not stack with other versions of this spell, or the warlock variant. This was presumably due to there being no hate transfer cap when the hate transfer portion of this spell was added. As there is now a hate transfer cap, making this spell stack either with multiple instances of itself or at a minimum with the warlock version, would give sorcerers a greater means of power regeneration (as minor as it is), without having the ability to overload the tank with hate transfers.

Issue: fabled chest piece bonuses.

Both the EoF and the VP fabled set for wizards have had a focus to a spell that a raiding wizard uses rarely, if at all. While it is too late to change now (no one was listening when we complained about it in EoF, or with the VP set "upgrades"... so we missed out on gettting something worthwhile this time round... thanks), having some sort of assurance that the next end game set robe for a wizard will have some thought put into it would be appreaciated.

Issue: general caster buffs vs melee buffs.

Casters, in general, have significantly fewer means of gaining DPS through buffs than melee classes do. This is not simply a case of melee having a greater variety of buff types at their disposal (haste, +DPS, +AE attack, +CA damage, +crit etc), but is a case of those buffs being more easily avalibe than caster oriented buffs.

As an example, look at how many classes have a melee proc that can be placed on others vs how many classes have a spell proc that can be placed on others. Now do the same with all melee buffs vs all caster buffs, factor in how many characters can recieve these buffs, and then try and explain the equality in the situation.

My personal suggestions are to make the sorcerer and conjuror melee proc buffs work on spells as well as melee (and consider this for other classes, including the likes of templars Glory spell line). I would also like to see a form of caster splash damage added as a means to equate to melee AE attacks, and to see spell double attack added to several items, though not in the same quantity as is seen on the wizard epic.




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On a note about VoES mobs.  Some of the mobs are immune to aoe naturally and thats why it seems that way.  I solo through there and sometimes a group root will only root the one i'm targetting, leaving me to root the "immune" ones (they have a specific name) individually since AoE will not grab them.  I thought it was bug at first but I later realized its just the way they created the mobs to be.


What is the difference in the fire/ice spells you suggest?  The end ability already turns all our spells into fire/cold respectivly causing us to proc the given temp buff with every spell cast?  Unless you mean make an AA that enhances the spells themselves and just condense the effect that changes our spells into heat/cold into our temp buffs, which would only give us one thing to click/no need for macros.


I feel the Rays one.  Although it feels like a bug, it works exactly how it should giving the spells mechanics.  But it would be nice if it could be altered to flow well with the double-attack system.  Or, as mages in my group say, let them get the DA of it too =p, they get jealous when I get another Rays, lol.  On that note Rays also has no end, it can quad attack if you get the right RNG.  Same way Storming Tempest did before the fix (I want the old one back! SMILEY)

Message edited by thajoka on 07/05/2008 08:45:57.



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This is more a summary post of the current discussions that have been occuring on cloth DPS and wizards. I would like to add that another side of this very large melee burst DPS and what imo is to quick a recovery time for thier CA's is that Assassin's and Swashies also own group DPS as well. Overall the game appears to be very melee centric now..

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=419860  (this is one of the best on our issues with GU 43)

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=421901

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=418679

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=412072 ( This thread sums up the dispair and goes a good bit as to why many may not bother to post into this thread. There is some bickering back and forth as to how effective a wizard is which eventually ends in most seeing the wizard DPS being relagated to low high tier 2 maybe low tier 1 dps with no more cloth DPS competition for the top three parse slots, which are the sole providiece of melee DPS. It is identified as being the result of GU 43/44 and probobly an indicator of where the class is headed.)

Please take the time to read thru them all, some wizards originally thought we where fine (and some still do I am sure) several changed thier mind in the course of these threads as they saw the problems develop with progression, no one filpped and started seeing the wizards as currently in a good state.

If I where to sum it up wizards are more random chance DPS on raids, unless where have massive support (Illy, Troub, Fury, Brig) we have no chance to even come in third on the parse. Couple this with the minimal support melee require and the fact that melee have much easier access to raid supporting buffs than cloth (more support available on more classes for melee buffs / debuffs) results in the class failing to be able to compete anymore against assassins and now to a leser degree swashies and rangers. Many parses now typically look like Assassin/Assassin, Swash, Ranger.. then cloth DPS. All we would like to be able to do is again compete for the top slot (not own just compete effectivly) with Assassins. It seems odd that there would not be a cloth equivalent to Assassins.

Thank you for your time and efforts



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About our (or my) issues:
1) As everyone already mentioned - resist rates on raid mobs. Without a brig in raid you can forget about topping a parse. And when you see a resist it's really really disgusting, sometimes 3-4 resists in row force me to think about logging out - it's just too much for my nerves (and beleive me, without a brig it' a pita).

2) Iceshape - I'd suggest to change the way it works. For example on most avatars with lots of control efects you might end up casting Iceshape, then get stunned or stifled for some amount of time and not be able to cast Frigid Gift, which makes Iceshape pointless in this situation. What I'd like to see is Iceshape being added to Frigid Gift if you take it in your AA's. Like you only have to cast Frigid Gift which will add dmg proc and change all your spells to ice. Also change Fireshape to work the same way with our heat proc buff.

3) Surging Tempest - 2 years... Also we can spend only 4 points in our AA's to enchance that spell for some weird reason. Just remove knockback effect and whatever else makes it works like a separate spell to make it work like a normal dot.

4)Our debuff - is there a chance we can get a longer duration on our debuff? Because 21 second is just not enough, something like 40 seconds would be much better. Also imho the dot from our debuff should be changed into single nuke (also change recast timer to fit the current DPS of that spell), because it's very hard to use that spell while soloing - you either should risk and cast debuff/dot or not use it all which kinda makes no sense since we have it and can't really use it.

5) Effects on our Mythical and VP set robe - +5max power on weapon and +10max power on robe. WHY??? We really don't need that power on raids, absolutely useless effects. Other mages get +10 cast speed and +10 reuse on spells (T8 Robe of Al'Kabor from Avatars aka contested mobs has +10 reuse on top of it's proc and absolutely every wizard would love to get it just because of reuse).
Change +5max power on our weapon to +5 cast speed, and +10max power on robe for 10 reuse or at least 10 cast time. This way, us wizards, at least will use it.

6) Forge of Ro - imho cast timer should be decreased. Not a great DPS spell with a long cast timer is not cool.

7) Electryfying Flash - that AOE dot is used on raids or not like only once or twice a week, because it's our most weak spell. I would say most wizards dont use it at all and prolly do not have it on their hotbars. Something should be done to make it usefull again (I dunno, increase damage, make it a pbaoe spell - something). No single class should have a spell/ca/some other ability which is not used at all.

8 ) 2nd ability in Sorceror strength line (Static Charge I think?) - useless. Hits only 4 targets in encounter in front of your with a long cast/recast timers. Change it to 8 targets and 1 second cast timer and 15 seconds recast without of the requirement of mobs being in front of you.

9) Numbing Cold - still only t6 version of this spell. Any chance of getting a t8 version? Might be with same stats, but at least we will be able to get Master 1 version of it.

10) Our melee proc buff - damage should be increased to be on par with Warlocks buff which is much better right now.

Thats all I can think of right now, maybe I've missed something.
PS I'am HerzenFunia if anyone of old players still remembers me. I didn't post here since early '07 because I thought it was really pointles. Hopefully Ilucide will bring some light here.

Message edited by Fomka on 07/08/2008 11:57:03.

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The 2nd post in this thread is a great summary of our issues IMO.

I especially like the suggestion of Furnace of Ro to autoposition itself *once*.  With the usual speedpulling in hardcore raid guilds, it's just not possible to cast it many times, I have to cast from second 1 as spells get into range to be anywhere in the upper half of the parse, if I'm lucky. No way to run in and place it at the mob. 

Thanx Ilucide for bothering btw with this thread and Noaani for his insight SMILEY<img src=" />

Regards, Tiath


Message edited by Revanna on 07/07/2008 00:16:16.


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Just Fix those RESISTS, please!

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=422916

This thread finely sums it up for PVP side of the story, which is much more frustrating even than PVE.

 Anyway, nice too see developers are still here and thank you for your time and efforts.


Message edited by Azol on 07/08/2008 00:59:10.


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Thanks! A more recent list of issues helps!

On the resist issue... I'm curious what people's disruption skill is when they're seeing large numbers of resists.

Surging Tempest was always meant to have 6 tics, not 7. I'm fairly certain Aeralik changed the spell to work like a normal dot though. Regardless, in an over-time capacity, it's about the most efficient spell a wizard can use.


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Ilucide wrote:
Thanks! A more recent list of issues helps!

On the resist issue... I'm curious what people's disruption skill is when they're seeing large numbers of resists.

Surging Tempest was always meant to have 6 tics, not 7. I'm fairly certain Aeralik changed the spell to work like a normal dot though. Regardless, in an over-time capacity, it's about the most efficient spell a wizard can use.


The largest number of resists is usually in the first 15 seconds of a fight as debuffs are being applied. The biggest problem right now is having to depend on 3 other classes to debuff a mob in order for us to hope that our spells hit in the higher range and do not resist. This is definately being reflected on the parse and making it harder for us to be able to compete with t1 dps classes such as the assasin.

My resist raid buff has to be well over 480 right now, go look at my gear on eq2 flames. I am well geared in the higher end t8 fabled gear and I am still getting random resist problems.

I think you guys made a mistake by making debuffs as a part of abilities such as snares and what not. These are the things that other classes such as scouts will use less as it does nothing for them.

If you guys really want to make it up to the mage community, you need to give us buffs that help us increase our resistability on spells.. similar to how there are buffs that increase hit rates for melee classes.

 

In regards to what Fomka said, he has definately touched on a lot of good points. I agree that you guys should look at velium gift/ice shape and make it more usefull in raid situations. Having to cast both of these spells is an issue, especially with mobs that have stuns or stifles. It renders it near useless in most high end encounters. Why not just make it so that when you take the ability it restructres velium gift to change all your abilities to cold. And make velium gift instant cast. What's the point of having a cast time on this ability? It's not a game breaker.




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Ilucide wrote:
Thanks! A more recent list of issues helps!

On the resist issue... I'm curious what people's disruption skill is when they're seeing large numbers of resists.

Surging Tempest was always meant to have 6 tics, not 7. I'm fairly certain Aeralik changed the spell to work like a normal dot though. Regardless, in an over-time capacity, it's about the most efficient spell a wizard can use.

Thanks a ton!!! This is awesome to get this kind of feedback! Now that we know surge is only to have 6 ticks we can ask the right question. Since the first tick fires on time 0 then the 6th tick will fire on time 40. Shouldn't the spell then stop and go into it's refresh/recast duration as opposed to waiting yet another 8 seconds to do nothing and then go in recast timing?

We now know the problem wasn't the last tick but 8 seconds of spell cast that shouldn't be there. Please fix surge temp so after it's last damage tick it goes into the recast timer and not run for another 8 seconds od dead space, or add that 8 seconds to the recast timer if you really want to keep it. this will remove a lot of confusion.

Disruption skill for raids is in the 480s to 500's depending on group set up. Resists are very routine with no brig on the raid and even with a brig it tends to be often enough to make my DPS more of a random chance for one of the top 5 slots (usually third thru fifth) and even noticably cuasing parse positions less than fifth. The top two slots easily go to assassin's / swashies,ranger with only a dirge/troub supporting them. Whereas the cloth requires Illy, Troub, Fury, Warlock(proc increase) all in group, and at least a Brig on raid before we see our DPS place us in third thru fifth positions.



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Ilucide wrote:
Thanks! A more recent list of issues helps!

On the resist issue... I'm curious what people's disruption skill is when they're seeing large numbers of resists.

Surging Tempest was always meant to have 6 tics, not 7. I'm fairly certain Aeralik changed the spell to work like a normal dot though. Regardless, in an over-time capacity, it's about the most efficient spell a wizard can use.

Some comments:

First and foremost, I am glad to see you looking at class balance issues. Reguardless of what your actual reason for doing so is, having someone simply say they are looking at these issues other than Aeralik (whom has lost nearly all confidance the general player population could have in a developer), is a good sign. If you were to say you have been assinged to look over class balance, many mages, especially top end/those that have been here since 2004 will be thinking there is no way you will be able to see the current resist rates and not make changes/suggest changes be made.

Second, although I have not tested this as much as I would like, caster skills seem to have a lesser impact on hit rate than melee skills do for melee hit rates. If this is true, then it may well be a large part of the reason there is a disparity in hit rates between casters and melee.

Third, Surging Tempest. If this spell is only supposed to have 6 ticks (the initial tick when the spell lands + 5 more), why is the duration of the spell longer than it needs to be, why did it have 7 when it was released back in DoF, and why are we able to get a 7th if we cancel it after the 6th tick but before it expires?




Loremaster

Joined: Apr 5, 2005
Messages: 3061
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Ilucide wrote:
Thanks! A more recent list of issues helps!

On the resist issue... I'm curious what people's disruption skill is when they're seeing large numbers of resists.

Surging Tempest was always meant to have 6 tics, not 7. I'm fairly certain Aeralik changed the spell to work like a normal dot though. Regardless, in an over-time capacity, it's about the most efficient spell a wizard can use.


While I am a lock, and not a wizzy, my disruption is 400/400 and i have only RoK quested gear + few fabled raid drops, and resists are through the roof.  (It seems like in game my disruption is over 400, but eq2players doesn't show that.)

 




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Joined: Nov 18, 2004
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Ilucide wrote:
Thanks! A more recent list of issues helps!

On the resist issue... I'm curious what people's disruption skill is when they're seeing large numbers of resists.

Surging Tempest was always meant to have 6 tics, not 7. I'm fairly certain Aeralik changed the spell to work like a normal dot though. Regardless, in an over-time capacity, it's about the most efficient spell a wizard can use.


On the resist issue: My skills during raids are over 500. Last raid I checked, Disruption was at 579 (effective level of almost 96, if there was no cap, or if those skills actually made a difference). With different setups, I've had disruption at over 600. It makes no difference. The first 10-15 seconds of any fight are completely random with regards to my spells landing. Might get lucky, might get 5 spells completely resisted in a row.

The main issue with resists, however, apart from the outright resists we get at the start of a fight, is the increased mitigation mobs have against spell damage, due to their higher wisdom (and, hence, resistances). Its effect on us is felt much more because, at least from what I can see, there are not enough debuffs out there to bring down the mobs' Wisdom enough.

Then again, the above issue has another side -- which no dev seems to want to talk about -- and that is dishonesty. The whole sham story started because -- supposedly -- melee hit rates against orange (i.e. lvl 85+) mobs in VP (and ONLY in VP) were too low. Then we get the "fix", which changes the resists for casters on ALL epic x4 mobs -- regardless of con -- in ALL zones of Kunark -- NOT just VP. Then, subsequently, melee hit rates were adjusted upwards, but caster changes were not reversed, or adjusted. And Aeralik is... "too busy" to worry about fixing this [I cannot control my vocabulary]. /shrug.

Forgive the bitterness.

Other issue: Storming Tempest: the spell description states (unmodified by AAs)

  • Effects: Inflicts 2363 - 2695 heat damage on target
  • Effects: Inflicts 1496 - 1828 heat damage on target every 8 seconds
  • Duration: 48 seconds

Now, the way I understand this, it works like this:

  • At time 0 sec (when spell lands) --> 2363 - 2695 damage
  • At 8 sec --> 1496 - 1828 damage
  • At 16 sec -->1496 - 1828 damage
  • At 24 sec -->1496 - 1828 damage
  • At 32 sec -->1496 - 1828 damage
  • At 40 sec -->1496 - 1828 damage
  • At 48 sec -->1496 - 1828 damage

So, that's one initial damage hit, and 6 ticks of the dot (pretty much like any other dot out there).

Now, if the spell is supposed to only hit 6 times (initial hit + 5 ticks), why the extra 8 seconds duration? If it's supposed to have 6 ticks though, why is the last tick not hitting, unless we re-click the spell?

 

D.

 

 



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Joined: Jun 19, 2008
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Ilucide wrote:
Thanks! A more recent list of issues helps!

On the resist issue... I'm curious what people's disruption skill is when they're seeing large numbers of resists.

Surging Tempest was always meant to have 6 tics, not 7. I'm fairly certain Aeralik changed the spell to work like a normal dot though. Regardless, in an over-time capacity, it's about the most efficient spell a wizard can use.
Disruption skill doesn't mean anything, especially when you are way over the cap (but if you're not - it still doesn't matter much).

Well, other people explained the problem with surging tempest very very well. Hopefully we will see some nice and at the same time not game breaking changes in the near future. At least I think noone asked for some uberness or anything like that in this thread, just bugs or annoying/wrong things, which after getting fixed would make playing our class way more enjoyable.


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Joined: Sep 21, 2006
Messages: 550
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Ilucide wrote:
Thanks! A more recent list of issues helps!

On the resist issue... I'm curious what people's disruption skill is when they're seeing large numbers of resists.

Surging Tempest was always meant to have 6 tics, not 7. I'm fairly certain Aeralik changed the spell to work like a normal dot though. Regardless, in an over-time capacity, it's about the most efficient spell a wizard can use.


Self buffed my disruption if 458 or so depending on gear.  I will admit when adding say +48 to all skills from an AA spec (i've tested this on an avatar before just to see if i noticed anything, not like this sped is a viable dps spec) or when the troub has their +skills song buff up, there is a SMALL difference.  But raising our casting skills doesn't even hold a candle to the difference that proper debuffs make.  I've seen a brig vs. no brig make as much difference as raising our hit-rates from the low 90's up to 98.5% and up.  I'm not sure increased casting skills would be prove to provide a higher hit-rate worth writing home about.

Sometimes all the wizzy debuffs in the world just don't make the noticeable difference.  I can use Ice Spears (~2k) and furnace of ro (~1.3k heat debuff), and even with fireshape up I can still get some brutal resists without a brigand present.  The brigand should make a difference, not make or break us - that is wizards (and all mages) main concern.  I remember a time when we were okay without a brig - now a days a brig is almost as essential for our dps as the classic mage + troubador combo.

 
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