Ok, we need to get this going.

Here is what I see as some current issues that need to be looked into. They may not be totally in-line with what everyone else is seeing, please post additions/changes or anything else here.

Edit: I will try to update this top post with any additions people may have.

BROKEN SPELLS AND ABILITIES

- Enhance Devistation (AA Line)

Dumbfires

- Once a source of really nice DPS for us, now seem to be nearly useless on most pulls. Raid mobs kill them instantly, and in instances the mobs die far too quickly for them to be effective.

Resists

- The fix for the Melee hit rates involved giving us more resists. The damage from our spells was not altered at the same time. The problem with this, is that our spells had been balanced knowing we had a 100% hit rate. Now that we don't have a 100% hit rate, our DPS has been lowered.

I don't think most of us would mind resists if our spells had some increased damage to offset those resists and leave us in line with the remaining T1 dps classes. On that note, as Warlocks I think most of us have accepted we won't have the same damage output on single target mobs VS multi-target mobs. Still, the seperation between us and single target DPS classes shouldn't be huge.

Multi-Mob encounters

- At one point this game was filled with zones containing multi-mob encounters. Much of the difficulty behind this game was in the balancing act we had to play when a multi-mob encounter was pulled. These encounters were also key in giving us higher zone-wide parses, and letting us shine as a class. Currently, there are a dismal amount of these in-game compared to previous expansions.

Group buffs

- The warlock has generally only ever had one real group buff that people enjoyed and looked for. The group buff from our propagations line was enjoyed by just about every class. When the ability for this line to buff proc %'s on items was removed (Without even giving us a patch note telling us it had), we basicly lost our only truely desired group utility.

Our "Activators"

- We require far more then any other class in the game to do good damage. - In a raid we require both a Troub AND Illusionist to keep up with many scouts who ONLY have a dirge. That's double the requirement. For most guilds, having the luck of the raid leader giving you both of these classes is remote. It's even more remote to have both of these classes show up together at the same raid. To compound this problem, Wizards are in the same boat.


What makes our class fun, and why it is currently lacking

- The very concept for most of us having chosen a cloth DPS class is having a class capable of insane-dps that has almost zero survivability. Well, you have the zero-survivability down .. but we aren't seeing the pay-off on the parse.

Truthfully, we should be capable of doing far more damage then our survivability will allow. Make us watch what we cast, make us need to be concious of our spellcasting .. or kill us!

Edit - Added stuff:

Epic

- The re-use timer to switch between single and multi-target damage should be removed or reduced.

- Clicky effect on the mythical. It should be a bit stronger, either by increasing the damage boost or lowering cast times on the affected spells. Why do spells with damage and cast times balanced against hitting 3+ mobs only get a 30% boost when condensed into single target spells.

Debuffs

- Namely the two debuffs that were used for Nil Crystal farming are now basicly useless. The Max Health debuff curse is absolutely useless. Absolutely anything would be better.

Buffs

- Grasp of Bertoxxulous not stacking with Ro's Blade. Currently both buffs show on the target, but ours will not proc while the wizard's is present.

Masters

- Armageddon M1, is this confirmed to be dropping?  I have yet to see a single M1 copy of this level 80 spell since RoK was released.  I see numerous mobs that should be dropping it, and even after farming them for months I just haven't seen it.

PVP(Added for the PVP folks)

- Make Manashield a clickable permanent spell that you can turn on and off as you please to avoid people running away at the sight of a warlock (Or wizard) using Manashield.

- Make DOTs usable in PVP, as of now they're useless due to the fact that fights lasts 4 seconds most of the time and 10 second tops.

- Increase the survivability of sorcerers in PVP against scouts.

A caster spends 2 seconds casting a spell. During that time, caster sits there and looks at the casting bar. S/he can’t move. S/he can’t do anything else. S/he’s just waiting for the spell to finish casting. Now s/he gets a resist. In the grand scheme of things, it shouldn’t matter much, but it does. S/he hit 9 times in a row before that resist, but those 2-2.5 seconds are important, because after that comes the next two seconds of casting, and the caster now gets to think about that resist.

A scout/melee tank spends 0.37 seconds using a combat art. During that time, the character can move. There’s no human reaction time fast enough to actually be doing something else (particularly useful) while that ability is going off. Now it misses – and it’s immediately followed by two or three hits given dual wield/double attack. There’s no ‘Hey, this sucks’ moment for the scout or the melee character, because they’re instantly off onto the next ability or auto attack. On the other hand, there are some scout chains that depend on a key ability landing, or the next combo lines don't work or don't work as well.

First off Id like to say, I love my warlock and very much enjoy the game.

I posted this in the other thread and would like to highlight it here.

Lots of classes put out dps, the really valuable dps classes are the one who bring utility to the table also, the ones groups dont want to live without.

Warlocks had that before propagations was fixed. Now with that and RoK focus on single targets we have to work alot harder to push the dps envelope when most other dps only classes can coast and blow us out the water if were not paying close attention.

It should be important that every mage brings some kind of valuable utility to the raids table and not just pure dps.

biggest issue right now is if you compair a equal wizzy to an equal lock and you only have 1 spot to fill, or one person to give TC to, the wizzy will win just about every single time. To me thats not right! that ratio should be more to 50% and not so one sided. Trash mobs die fast we dps slow.

Reasons it one sided in this expansion is

 a) wizzy dps is naturaly single target focus, most all VP is single target focus

 b) group buffs/utility in a mage group the wizzy buffs benifit the group more than the locks, our casting buff if defused by diminishing returns from the bard and illy. Also the wizzy velum gift line brings dps to the rest of the casters. Locks just dont have anything to compare to that. So its to easy to pick any wizzy in replace of a lock for buffs and a spot.

c) Zonewide parse contain a lot of trash, that trash dies quickly so quickly warlock barly have time to push the dps needed to compete.

Warlocks are a dot class SOE should have given warlocks a super ubar ability that affect our dots similer to the SK's. Why in the world give them the ability for there dots to tick more? That soo should have been us honestly.

On the other hand resist in VP are not a problem for me not at all, not anywhere in any zone, know why? My Disruption sits 500+ solo and i dont normally ever get 2 resist back to back unless its a debuff and that has nothing to do with my disruption so I know exactly why.  My resist range from 1.5%-3% in raid it always seems worse exactly for the reason Ilucide listed because its so noticable on long cast that it really sticks out.

On a side not resist can kill a casters parse in no time flat this just isnt the case for mele.

In a 30sec fight if you wasted 5sec on 2 resist thats 1/6th or more dps lost where a scout just instanly cast soemtihng else and the dps is hardly effected. Casters dont have auto attack 100% of our damage comes from our cast.

Hotness. Thanks for the new thread.

I'm not convinced that resists are anywhere near as poor as people have mentioned (at least, around 475ish disruption - they get do get a lot worse the lower that number gets), however, there's a significant difference in the way resists are perceived when compared to melee misses.

The way I think about it is something like this:

A caster spends 2 seconds casting a spell. During that time, caster sits there and looks at the casting bar. S/he can’t move. S/he can’t do anything else. S/he’s just waiting for the spell to finish casting. Now s/he gets a resist. In the grand scheme of things, it shouldn’t matter much, but it does. S/he hit 9 times in a row before that resist, but those 2-2.5 seconds are important, because after that comes the next two seconds of casting, and the caster now gets to think about that resist.

A scout/melee tank spends 0.37 seconds using a combat art. During that time, the character can move. There’s no human reaction time fast enough to actually be doing something else (particularly useful) while that ability is going off. Now it misses – and it’s immediately followed by two or three hits given dual wield/double attack. There’s no ‘Hey, this sucks’ moment for the scout or the melee character, because they’re instantly off onto the next ability or auto attack. On the other hand, there are some scout chains that depend on a key ability landing, or the next combo lines don't work or don't work as well.

I'm also not necessarily convinced that the resist changes from February didn't swing a little too far in the other direction either. But along with everything else, we're certainly keeping an eye on all this stuff. Parses can certainly swing in favor of melee or casters depending on group makeup and player knowledge/gear.

As far as multi-mob encounters go, while they're probably going to remain more rare in solo areas, you can expect to see them in newer group areas along with single mob encounters.

Edit: Fixed the nasty color.

  "A caster spends 2 seconds casting a spell. During that time, caster sits there and looks at the casting bar. S/he can't move. S/he can't do anything else. S/he's just waiting for the spell to finish casting. Now s/he gets a resist. In the grand scheme of things, it shouldn't matter much, but it does. S/he hit 9 times in a row before that resist, but those 2-2.5 seconds are important, because after that comes the next two seconds of casting, and the caster now gets to think about that resist."

  and so with this game and its combat speed and anti-kiting rules and the misses and resists the same as you say....why can't casters move when casting ?

The way I think about it is something like this:

A caster spends 2 seconds casting a spell. During that time, caster sits there and looks at the casting bar. S/he can’t move. S/he can’t do anything else. S/he’s just waiting for the spell to finish casting. Now s/he gets a resist. In the grand scheme of things, it shouldn’t matter much, but it does. S/he hit 9 times in a row before that resist, but those 2-2.5 seconds are important, because after that comes the next two seconds of casting, and the caster now gets to think about that resist.

A scout/melee tank spends 0.37 seconds using a combat art. During that time, the character can move. There’s no human reaction time fast enough to actually be doing something else (particularly useful) while that ability is going off. Now it misses – and it’s immediately followed by two or three hits given dual wield/double attack. There’s no ‘Hey, this sucks’ moment for the scout or the melee character, because they’re instantly off onto the next ability or auto attack. On the other hand, there are some scout chains that depend on a key ability landing, or the next combo lines don't work or don't work as well.

At this point, why play a Warlock?  Why not play a scout?

Hotness. Thanks for the new thread.

I'm not convinced that resists are anywhere near as poor as people have mentioned (at least, around 475ish disruption - they get do get a lot worse the lower that number gets), however, there's a significant difference in the way resists are perceived when compared to melee misses.

The way I think about it is something like this:

A caster spends 2 seconds casting a spell. During that time, caster sits there and looks at the casting bar. S/he can’t move. S/he can’t do anything else. S/he’s just waiting for the spell to finish casting. Now s/he gets a resist. In the grand scheme of things, it shouldn’t matter much, but it does. S/he hit 9 times in a row before that resist, but those 2-2.5 seconds are important, because after that comes the next two seconds of casting, and the caster now gets to think about that resist.

A scout/melee tank spends 0.37 seconds using a combat art. During that time, the character can move. There’s no human reaction time fast enough to actually be doing something else (particularly useful) while that ability is going off. Now it misses – and it’s immediately followed by two or three hits given dual wield/double attack. There’s no ‘Hey, this sucks’ moment for the scout or the melee character, because they’re instantly off onto the next ability or auto attack. On the other hand, there are some scout chains that depend on a key ability landing, or the next combo lines don't work or don't work as well.

I'm also not necessarily convinced that the resist changes from February didn't swing a little too far in the other direction either. But along with everything else, we're certainly keeping an eye on all this stuff. Parses can certainly swing in favor of melee or casters depending on group makeup and player knowledge/gear.

As far as multi-mob encounters go, while they're probably going to remain more rare in solo areas, you can expect to see them in newer group areas along with single mob encounters.

Edit: Fixed the nasty color.

Hotness. Thanks for the new thread.

I'm not convinced that resists are anywhere near as poor as people have mentioned (at least, around 475ish disruption - they get do get a lot worse the lower that number gets), however, there's a significant difference in the way resists are perceived when compared to melee misses.

The way I think about it is something like this:

A caster spends 2 seconds casting a spell. During that time, caster sits there and looks at the casting bar. S/he can’t move. S/he can’t do anything else. S/he’s just waiting for the spell to finish casting. Now s/he gets a resist. In the grand scheme of things, it shouldn’t matter much, but it does. S/he hit 9 times in a row before that resist, but those 2-2.5 seconds are important, because after that comes the next two seconds of casting, and the caster now gets to think about that resist.

A scout/melee tank spends 0.37 seconds using a combat art. During that time, the character can move. There’s no human reaction time fast enough to actually be doing something else (particularly useful) while that ability is going off. Now it misses – and it’s immediately followed by two or three hits given dual wield/double attack. There’s no ‘Hey, this sucks’ moment for the scout or the melee character, because they’re instantly off onto the next ability or auto attack. On the other hand, there are some scout chains that depend on a key ability landing, or the next combo lines don't work or don't work as well.

I'm also not necessarily convinced that the resist changes from February didn't swing a little too far in the other direction either. But along with everything else, we're certainly keeping an eye on all this stuff. Parses can certainly swing in favor of melee or casters depending on group makeup and player knowledge/gear.

As far as multi-mob encounters go, while they're probably going to remain more rare in solo areas, you can expect to see them in newer group areas along with single mob encounters.

Edit: Fixed the nasty color.

Hotness. Thanks for the new thread.

I'm not convinced that resists are anywhere near as poor as people have mentioned (at least, around 475ish disruption - they get do get a lot worse the lower that number gets), however, there's a significant difference in the way resists are perceived when compared to melee misses.

The way I think about it is something like this:

A caster spends 2 seconds casting a spell. During that time, caster sits there and looks at the casting bar. S/he can’t move. S/he can’t do anything else. S/he’s just waiting for the spell to finish casting. Now s/he gets a resist. In the grand scheme of things, it shouldn’t matter much, but it does. S/he hit 9 times in a row before that resist, but those 2-2.5 seconds are important, because after that comes the next two seconds of casting, and the caster now gets to think about that resist.

A scout/melee tank spends 0.37 seconds using a combat art. During that time, the character can move. There’s no human reaction time fast enough to actually be doing something else (particularly useful) while that ability is going off. Now it misses – and it’s immediately followed by two or three hits given dual wield/double attack. There’s no ‘Hey, this sucks’ moment for the scout or the melee character, because they’re instantly off onto the next ability or auto attack. On the other hand, there are some scout chains that depend on a key ability landing, or the next combo lines don't work or don't work as well.

I'm also not necessarily convinced that the resist changes from February didn't swing a little too far in the other direction either. But along with everything else, we're certainly keeping an eye on all this stuff. Parses can certainly swing in favor of melee or casters depending on group makeup and player knowledge/gear.

As far as multi-mob encounters go, while they're probably going to remain more rare in solo areas, you can expect to see them in newer group areas along with single mob encounters.

Edit: Fixed the nasty color.

Sorcerers ahve an average cast timer of about 3 seconds, not 2, just an fyi.

While I can see what you are saying here, I want to point out something that has happened reciently, even though it may seem unrelated.

When looking over the guild recruitment window, Rothgar told us all that it would list a maximum of 40 guilds. After people claiming that it did not list nearly that many, and him stateing clearly that it did according to the code, he changed it to list guilds even if they have no recruiter online. With this change live, people went back and counted the number of guilds listed, and posted that it was not listing more than 25 guilds on live. Rothgar had already noticed this before it was posted, and had it patched up, but the fact remains that players had reported something not working as it should, and a developer used what should be happening in the code to say that what we are seeing was incorrect (he didn't say we were wrong or anything, and fixed it, so nothing at all against him).

So, you are saying that according to the code, resists should be minimal with more than 475 disruption. We are saying that, irrespective of what the code says, disruption (or any other casting skill) has a minimal effect on resists at best as it stands now on live.

Epic - The re-use timer to switch between single and multi-target damage should be removed or reduced.

What is the recast of this?

I haven't asked my guilds warlock, but I always just assumed it would be insta cast insta recast... would make sence to me.

Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:

Epic - The re-use timer to switch between single and multi-target damage should be removed or reduced.

What is the recast of this?

I haven't asked my guilds warlock, but I always just assumed it would be insta cast insta recast... would make sence to me.

My Warlock has been retired since RoK came out.

If it weren't for the fact that I also have a 67 (and levelling quickly) Wizard, I *would* have betrayed already.

Soloability needs to be improved. Seems like every spell we have is designed to break root, seems like every AA ability is designed to break root.

IMO, Warlocks should have been made into an avoidance caster (like a Monk with spells) able to move while casting, and with some really cool void effects (like removing an add completely by having them sucked thru a portal into oblivion).