General damage and heal bonuses will no longer apply to triggered spells except with the profession spells which increase from +damage effects.
Could we get an explanation for why this is being done? Is there some problem with proc's that just came to light?
I would really hope that the "need" for this isn't because of the incredibly high damage on avatar items coupled with those same characters having 60-100% base spell mod.
This has been on our radar for awhile so to say it just came to light is not correct. Previously, few items upgraded base damage so the impact to proc spells was very limited to items like the Bloodthirsty Choker and a handful of similar items. With this expansion, came a lot of additional ways to get this effect so instead of very limited adjustments to proc damage it is becoming more and more pronounced the proc damage gains you can get from from this effect. So now its restricted to only applying to core profession procs like an enchanter or cleric reactive while item procs and some other generic buff procs will be controlled and inline with their original design.
So to clarify, or to say, what I think you mean...
Procs were benefiting from damage increases.
That wasn't intended.
It's now fixed.
Isn't that kind of like saying every proc item has a "cannot be modified except by direct means" when it comes to the damage portion?
Well with the crap-ton of hit points heroic TSO instance mobs now come with... are you going to lower that as well?
Making fights longer does not make them harder or more fun.
Wurm wrote:
Well with the crap-ton of hit points heroic TSO instance mobs now come with... are you going to lower that as well?Making fights longer does not make them harder or more fun.
QFE on this comment.
The overall effect of the changes in the coming update will be to:
1. Decrease substantially the DPS contributed by the tank in groups.
2. Decrease substantially the DPS contributed by proc effects.
Slowing down fights where you have heroic zones full of trash that are intended to be visited repeatedly is a recipe for no fun. Please look at the health on TSO heroics, particularly trash, as part of these changes.
Agreed. If you are going to reduce raid/group DPS significantly through the Fighter changes and now item proc changes, yet you do not compensate by lowering the hit points of the encounters and the damage output of the encounters you are just making the fights 1. take longer 2. become harder for the priests to heal the damage 3. add frustration to an already frustrated community.
Perhaps you should consider raising the base damage and heal amounts of the existing spells (and I am talking a bit higher than can be achieved via AA lines) to compensate if you are unwilling to retune HPS and Damage output of all the encounters.
ITs to late to change this now. So many of us have made gear and spell upgrade choices based on the previous design.
Aeralik wrote:
Thats liek saying because peopel were not able to get such high int before we are making int not effect procs, or because people were not able to get such high crit we are making them not crit at all. This expansion has already been criticized for its side ways progression and now you are only making that problem worse.
So by "other generic buff procs" you're referring to things like Perfection of the Maestro?
My guild killed Gynok for the first time last night....and it was a fight that lasted over 22 minutes. As a SK I contributed 6k DPS to the fight (yes not fantastic but I did die 3 times due to death touch timings) and I was not tanking. A good portion of my DPS was from AEs (which SOE has nerfed quite a bit), and I don't have the raw numbers but a good portion of this damage on the mobs were proc damage.
We already have to bring 8-9 healers for this fight because of the massive damage output from the mobs and the death touch and blah blah blah. We bring 4 tanks actually because as of right now Fighters have descent DPS in offensive and can switch to defensive fast since all the variables make it likely there will need to be a pick up until MT or OT can get back up (this is how I died 3 times). So now SOE you are nerfing the crap out of fighter DPS in defensive stance so we will lose a lot of the DPS the OT and MT are putting out. You are nerfing the over-all raid DPS that comes from proc damage, and as a SK I really feel it because you are nerfing my AEs by a large chunk which was important on this fight...and as a hybrid type class I took a little more advantage of the proc damage than other classes (yes that is right I have had to spec for +base spell damage, +spell mod, +spell crit on top of the +melee stats and tanking stats).
How much longer do you want this fight to last? After this update goes live are we going to be talking about a 40 minute fight? Are we going to be talking about sitting those 2 extra fighters because the DPS loss is just way too much of a liability so we need to bring in more Assassins?
Haters.
controlled and inline with their original design.
Ever heard the saying why fix it if it ain't broke?
Seriously, what are you people thinking over there? We have all been playing by the same rules for years now and buff procs are a part of the game! It is an even playing field. It's not like some groups or guilds have an advantage over any other because of procs. We have learned how to play with what tool you gave us, and the builds we have designed through AAs and raid makeup. Now you are telling us that was not "in line" with your original design? So what you're basically saying is we have been playing and PAYING for a broken game for the past few years. We have adapted our play style to your broken implementation of these rules. So just leave it alone. We are spending discretionary dollars on this game because we enjoy it as is. You may lose those subscribers if you tweak it too much. Consider the consequences of these radical changes before they make it to live.
Do us a favor, and do yourselves a favor. The consumer if pretty fickle right now. And something like this will send people over the edge.
If this goes through it will effectively end high-end raiding in EQ2 I'm sure. All these item nerfs plus now making procs pretty much impossible to effect and/or upgrade?
Ya right.
What is the point of raiding this game now?
This also proves that you guys have no idea what you're doing in regards to progression when you make expansions. In your own commentary you said "well previously there wasn't very many base upgrades" but then you make TSO and add base damage upgrade everywhere without considering what its going to do to progression? Then you go OH CRAP and make harsh, overdone corrections to items that have been able for years?
Its ridiculous. Its like your left hand never knows what your right hand is doing and the playerbase suffers. Plus you always start your replies with "well this has been on our radar awhile" -- yet it stays live months on end because of what?
These massive changes to how the game is played every single update are getting old. This game is 4 years old going on 5; quit redesigning the game. Its more than transparent that you and the team aren't capapble and are overworked. So instead of "fixing" everything just leave it as is. Everyone is used to it. Who cares if players are overpowered in such an old game, we've earned it. You can't rewrite history every update and expect your small but loyal (for how long) playerbase to just keep taking it on the chin.
This change is stupid, its ill-conceived and it needs to die on test.
Sadly, I also have to point out that this expansion has seen a huge increase in the amount of proc gear available due to the various void bane items. If this was such a huge concern and been on the radar for a long time, why wasn't it addressed with the implementation of all this added proc gear?
I for one actually support this change. Spell Dmg should affect your own spells, not the effect on a piece of gear. I'm in fact not sure why crit still affects procs.
Motzi@Unrest wrote:
Why should melee crit effect CAs?
or
Why should melee crit effect auto attack?
