I just feel that a central issue is being ignored.

From the moment I log onto the game my voice chat service is trying to establish a connection.  Correct?  So whether I am swanning around the guild hall, on a raid, doing tradeskilling, changing my display resolution, or whatever, it is irrellevant to my problem.  I can accept that there is a pause between each voice service connection attempt but whether the error is in my modem, my sound card, my firewall or wherever, something is blocking that connectivity and that this would be happening continuously.  True?

So what's with 'Options'?  Why are most of us experiencing a freeze and unresponsiveness when we go near our voice chat selections?

If this lag is caused by Voiceservice.exe trying to get a connection why is it that I don't walk one pace, lag, one pace, lag, one pace, lag, etc?  My modem isn't listed in Options, nor is my ISP or anything to do with connectivity.  IF these were the problems then the symptoms they would cause would be game wide and show up from the moment I logged on.

Logically, the absense of voice is the result of the problem and the source of the problem is a conflict in Options.

Ok, I'm not going to keep this thread on my bookmarks or put any effort into keeping up with it but here are my spec/networking hardware to hopefully help you guys out.

Computer:

Windows Vista X64 SP1

Intel Core 2 Duo E8500

Asus P5N-T Deluxe

XFX GTX275

Networking:

NIC: Nvidia Nforce 10/100/1000

ADSL Router: Dynalink RTA770W

Wireless Router: Linksys WRT54GL

Routers are properly configured with latest firmware. I have my main computer on Ethernet and my laptop on wireless. Neither have access to Voicechat. Voicechat works fine though my works DSL connection though.

I realize there is something wrong with my router, it may not be new enough. I know that if i go and buy the same one we use at work it will be fine though i don't see why i should have to buy a new router to get something going that should not have been broken in the first place.

Cheers.

Mikkahl wrote:

At or around the time of these disable / re-enable attempts, the following kind of messages appear in the DLink 825 firewall log (where 70.42.62.154 is registered to Vivox.com):

Blocked outgoing TCP packet from 192.168.0.3:4344 to 70.42.62.154:443 as PSH:ACK received but there is no active connection
Blocked incoming TCP packet from 70.42.62.154:443 to 192.168.30.53:4363 with unexpected sequence 3534148511 (expected 1647742096 to 1647806336)

(Note: Although whois reports that 70.42.62.154 is registered to Vivox.com, I notice that it does NOT fall into the range of IP addresses that DJWolf5 just recently posted for Vivox).

Response from DLink about these log messages:

"The first one is out of sequence, TCP connections normally use a 3 way handshake (SYN, SYN/ACK, ACK), this log message informs you that the software on your PC jumped to ACK without a SYN and SYN/ACK passing through NAT.

The second packet has an out of range sequence number (this one is more likely to be cause by confused connections than anything else).  The sequence number is one of the fields in the TCP header that is used for both connection integrity purposes as well as a certain amount of security.  In order to join the conversation a middle man would have to know the correct sequence number, which is unlikely.

The solution is to turn off SPI and endpoint filtering, this will allow at least the first packet through, and it might the second as well.  It should be noted however that they were both dropped because they are examples of packets that should never happen if the TCP standard is followed.  Such malformed packets have been used in attacks in the past, this is why the default action is to drop them.  Someone is playing fast and loose with the rules here, and it does not bode well for your VoIP application."

mschwab again:  Considering I get a zillion similar blocked messages from other IP addresses in the log, and those are presumably hackers, there is no way I would want to turn off SPI and let all of those other hackers get in!

I never thought to check the forums about this, but mine has been intermittent at best since the patch. I can hear everyone in the channel just fine, but when I use the PTT key, it lights up on my screen as "You are talking in ..." whatever channel I happen to be in, but no one else in the channel even gets the notice that I am talking, let alone hear me. Then, after a while, for no apparent reason, it suddenly works but I come through to them as mostly static, like an old CB radio. Shortly after that, it randomly cuts out and the only clue I have that they can't hear me is when they don't respond to something that would normally get a response. My guild has a ventrilo server available to us, but I would much rather use the in game chat, as it is more convenient and up until the latest patch, had much better reliablility and sound quality.

DJWolf5 wrote:

From SOE:
" What we found is that apparently Vivox is now using packets that exceed the maximum size for most routers. That is causing many routers to block them or break them apart. Because of that, the only real solution would be to install firmware that increases the size limit (not always possible) or to bypass the router entirely. We are referring the customers that are still having a problem to install their routers newest firmware. You will have to go to the manufactures website for support, I would direct you but I am unsure of the type of router you have. If you need help please let me know the router make and model and I will get you what they recommend. Then you will want to download your routers firmware by clicking on the type of router you have from the list. If this does not help you might have an older router that will not support all this information that the packets are giving. I am sorry about this we do know it is a know problem with a few of our customers and we are working to get a solid answer. I do hope that with the update to your firmware that it resolves the issue at hand. Please let me know if there are any other problems or concerns with your Voice Chat."

I've read here that Vivox has a 1557 packet size when the maximum allowed is 1500 on most of the Internet.  Therefore, I disagree with the statement above that "the only real solution" is to reconfigure most of the Internet for the Vivox software.  Instead I agree with this post from page 5, that the "real solution" is for Vivox to stop violating standards and get their packet size below 1500.

Yerma wrote:

HELLO GUYS!

WAKE UP A LITTLE! When I posted the problem - packet size on the VC was > 1500. I was saying that the VC app had a HUGE BUG. VC shouldnt be sending packets > 1500. Most of the internet isnt built to handle this.

Having ppl say it's your routers, firewall, etc wont help. Bottom line - VC needs to be fixed. And needs to operate with packets < 1500 bytes in size and not the 1557 it seems to operate.

I forwarded this discussion on to DLink as well, and here was their response (from their DIR-825 forums), with considerably more authority than my own:

"The MTU of Ethernet (IEEE802.3) is 1500, to can't be set larger (see footnote).  Sony is either not being clear on what they mean or don't understand what is happening here, or . . . ).  Now some WAN type use an MTU smaller than 1500 (PPPoE at 1492 for example), but this doesn't explain out of sequence packets. . . .

Footnote:  Every communication technology has it's own MTU, some technologies are used in conjunction with others that have different MTUs, in this case the smallest MTU is the one that should be used on all stacked protocols.  For most type of connections MTU is implicit and not a setting.  In Ethernet (IEEE 802.3) networks the MTU is adjustable and capped at 1500 by the IEEE 802.3 standard.  It is important to note that there is a newer standard for gigabit networks allowing higher MTUs (up to 9000) but that does not apply for WAN technology."

So obviously DLink disagrees with the SOE (Vivox?) statement that "the only real solution would be to install firmware that increases the size limit ", since that would be a violation of the Ethernet standards.

And bypassing the router is not an option for me, or others like me, who have multiple computers on their local area network.

I'll reply here aswell since it seems like a consolidated thread and I got no help whatsoever in the thread I opened beforehand.

Problem: I cannot use Voice Chat. If I try to join any channel it says the name of the channel followed by 0 players (ie: Guild (0)), and logs don't show something like "You have joined channel: <Guild>" as it should. So I am effectively unable to use VC at all.

Symptoms: Notable symptoms are:

-a tremendous screen freeze (5~10s) when I try to open the options panel (or from VC channel options to "More Options...".

-Not being able to select Input nor Output Devices (only get the <Default> option from the dropdown menu, the "options..." buttons on the right of both of them are unresponsive). Clicking on these 2 Dropdown menus also cause a ~5s Freeze to the computer.

-Getting a "Could not discover Window Mic settings" in red in the Mic test area (ofc all buttons in that area are unresponsive)

Past and Present: VC worked fine and still works fine on my other PCs with the same internet connection and headphones, so those are definetly NOT the problem. The PC configuration where I am encountering these issues are:

CPU: Intel Core i7-920

MoBo: ASUS P6T W(S) Professional

RAM: 6GB Tri-Channel Corsair Low Cas

GFX: ASUS ENGTX 295 1.7GB

Soundcard: ASUS Xonar D2X

PSU: Xilence 800W

Headset: Bandbridge Gaming Headset (normal jack, not USB)

I connect to internet, as I said, directly, without any Router

Software:

OS: Windows 7 Ultimate RC x64, fully patched.

Audio Drivers: Xonar D2X drivers for Vista/7 x64 dated 06 July 2009

Info and tests:

Soundcard works wonders in every other application, including 3rd Party voice chats like Ventrilo, Teamspeak, Skype, Microphone included. Usually in those programs i can select about 6 different options for both Input or Output (since I also have a built-in sound card which is NOT set as default, but actually disabled from the Sound panel).

Soundcard works wonderfully in EQ2 aswell if we exclude the Voice Chat problem

I am currently using no Firewalls except Windows Firewall.

Windows Firewall and antivirus (AVG) are set to enable EQ2VoiceService.exe to connect both ways with Internet, to all IP addresses, using ANY TCP or UDP ports.

Sound settings in control panel show "Speakers (Xonar D2X Audio Device)" as the only enabled (and default) output and "Microphone (Xonar D2X Audio Device" as the only enabled (and default) input device. I also tried enabling all other sources of Output/Input, with no luck.

Microphone Boost is enabled. Microphone Volume is 100%

I tried deleting cache folder, eq2.ini file, eq2_recent.ini, eq2_default.ini, Servername_CharacterName_uisettings.ini (or was it .xml?), Stationname_characters.ini (or .xml?), vivoxsdk.dll, EQ2VoiceService.exe, EverQuestII.exe, letting patcher download new ones and login, still no luck.

I tried adding cl_vivox_use 0 (or whatever the command was, copy/pasted it from another thread) to eq2.ini, still no luck.

Question is: has anyone with a Xonar D2X ever managed to get VC working?

DJWolf5 wrote:

I just feel that a central issue is being ignored.

 

From the moment I log onto the game my voice chat service is trying to establish a connection.  Correct?  So whether I am swanning around the guild hall, on a raid, doing tradeskilling, changing my display resolution, or whatever, it is irrellevant to my problem.  I can accept that there is a pause between each voice service connection attempt but whether the error is in my modem, my sound card, my firewall or wherever, something is blocking that connectivity and that this would be happening continuously.  True?

So what's with 'Options'?  Why are most of us experiencing a freeze and unresponsiveness when we go near our voice chat selections?

If this lag is caused by Voiceservice.exe trying to get a connection why is it that I don't walk one pace, lag, one pace, lag, one pace, lag, etc?  My modem isn't listed in Options, nor is my ISP or anything to do with connectivity.  IF these were the problems then the symptoms they would cause would be game wide and show up from the moment I logged on.

Logically, the absense of voice is the result of the problem and the source of the problem is a conflict in Options.

The lag you're getting when you open options most likely has something to do with the voice service trying to query windows for your device information.  This is why it wouldnt happen any other time.

Heya Rothgar,

If you could. could you let us in on why a lot of these problem happened after the last GU (my headset issue for example). I have a few guildmates who are getting pretty frustrated with the problem. I think if you could just outline where you're at troubleshooting this and why rolling back to before the last GU is not something you want to do.

It would help as far as knowing there is a plan in place. Seeing someone logout because they are unable to join chat is a bummer. I know you don't want to put a timetable on a fix but some idea as to why we can't go back to before the last GU would be helpful.

Thanks

Rothgar wrote:

DJWolf5 wrote:

I just feel that a central issue is being ignored.

 

From the moment I log onto the game my voice chat service is trying to establish a connection.  Correct?  So whether I am swanning around the guild hall, on a raid, doing tradeskilling, changing my display resolution, or whatever, it is irrellevant to my problem.  I can accept that there is a pause between each voice service connection attempt but whether the error is in my modem, my sound card, my firewall or wherever, something is blocking that connectivity and that this would be happening continuously.  True?

So what's with 'Options'?  Why are most of us experiencing a freeze and unresponsiveness when we go near our voice chat selections?

If this lag is caused by Voiceservice.exe trying to get a connection why is it that I don't walk one pace, lag, one pace, lag, one pace, lag, etc?  My modem isn't listed in Options, nor is my ISP or anything to do with connectivity.  IF these were the problems then the symptoms they would cause would be game wide and show up from the moment I logged on.

Logically, the absense of voice is the result of the problem and the source of the problem is a conflict in Options.

The lag you're getting when you open options most likely has something to do with the voice service trying to query windows for your device information.  This is why it wouldnt happen any other time.

 

Rothgar can you answer me this then.  Why do I "not" get the lag in Character Select, but I do when attempting to open options once I am further into the game and try to access it from that point?

Greyform wrote:

Heya Rothgar,

If you could. could you let us in on why a lot of these problem happened after the last GU (my headset issue for example). I have a few guildmates who are getting pretty frustrated with the problem. I think if you could just outline where you're at troubleshooting this and why rolling back to before the last GU is not something you want to do.

It would help as far as knowing there is a plan in place. Seeing someone logout because they are unable to join chat is a bummer. I know you don't want to put a timetable on a fix but some idea as to why we can't go back to before the last GU would be helpful.

Thanks

THIS is the central issue, the crux of the biscuit so to speak. I have asked this question several times in this thread and it has never been answered. SOE CAN fix this laughable situation, yet, for whatever reason, choose not to. I can only ask, WHY?

It is obvious they cannot fix this issue, so with that in mind, why doesn't someone make a decision and roll the damn thing back so we can get on with it? I can't help but feel a sense of deva vu here... cough...fighter revamp. Wonder how much that episode cost?

Please stop dancing around the issue Rothgar, tell us exactly why almost one MONTH after the disaster that was GU 52, SOE have decided that is preferable to have a broken voice system, that is upsetting what, 10%, 15% maybe of its player base to rolling back to a working pre-GU 52 version. I believe the last excuse was that it 'is not easy,' apparently losing players and accounts and whole guilds even is preferable? I think Sony have lost ANY shred of credibility or goodwill that they may have had.

Weirdly enough, voice worked for me for most of my gaming day yesterday. It survived half a dozen alt swaps. I foolishly felt that the fix was in. Of course, then it just stopped working again. bah The CANCEL button is getting closer by the day. Why the hell are we PAYING to be beta testers for software that is dodgy at best and pathetic at worst? Isn't that what the test server is for? Oh wait, it was tested on test and it failed the test, yet some clown gave the go ahead to release it, no doubt to stick to some artificial deadline. I am sick of paying for this buggy piece of junk. I am sick of the excuses. I am sick of TSR asking me if my mic is connected. I am sick of Rothgar not answering the real questions. What will it take for SOE to realise that this HAS to be rolled back NOW??

They can't just "roll it back" because they changed the way voice chat worked entirely.  Instead of being integrated into the game code itself, it is now a separate program that runs in the background, so Station launcher and the game itself can continue to manage your voice chat sessions even when you log off, or while you're patching.  This is why it's different, and that's why it's still buggy.  A rollback would mean going back and re-writing more code for ALL the game clients that now use the new Vivox voice service, meaning more work than it would probably take to just fix it.

That separate program, however, is not managed by SOE.  It is not coded by SOE.  It is not handled by SOE.  It is handled by Vivox.  SOE provides them information.  Vivox tries to fix it.  It won't be perfect.  But i'm sure they're trying.

Rothgar is trying his best to help here.  Threatening to cancel and insulting the man who is doing his best to help out here is hardly conducive to it getting fixed.  The more bug reports you file, the more information you give, that is above and beyond "OMG IT DOESN'T WORK" brings it closer to being resolved.  I would perhaps advise trying this instead of flaming a hard working developer over a service that SOE is paying out of pocket for you to enjoy.  It's free to us.  If it doesn't work, there are alternatives.  You just have to pay for them.  I'm thrilled that I get the option of chatting with my friends at no cost, buggy or not.  (Even though, admittedly, for me, it works fine right now, with few exceptions, but nothing devastating).

The problem is that the majority of us here are way out of our depths.  I have no idea of what a DNS lookup tool is and I'm a little annoyed that I'm expected to.  I read MiKkahl's post relating comments from D-Link and wonder if what they are saying relates to every server on the path.  It's not just my modem, Vivox and my ISP.

This is a trace I was instructed to do.  I live in Perth West Australia, my ISP is IINET and my modem at 1ms is 10.1.1.1.  At number 4 the signal leaves Perth and goes to Sydney.  At number 7 (the second one at it reaches the USA where it bounces around for a while.

Tracing route to eqworld-126.everquest.com [199.108.3.101]over a maximum of 30 hops:

   1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  10.1.1.1
   2    16 ms    16 ms    16 ms  nexthop.wa.ii.net [203.59.14.16]
   3    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  gi2-3.per-qv1-bdr2.ii.net [203.215.4.30]
   4    75 ms    75 ms    76 ms  gi0-8-1-0.syd-mas-core1.iinet.net.au [203.215.20.64]
   5    77 ms    76 ms    79 ms  static.net.reach.com [134.159.160.57]
   6    85 ms    75 ms    74 ms  unknown.net.reach.com [202.84.220.149]
   7   224 ms   223 ms   222 ms  i-2-1-1.wil-core02.bx.reach.com [202.84.140.38]
   8   225 ms   225 ms   234 ms  i-1-1.tlot03.bi.reach.com [202.84.251.234]
   9   258 ms   258 ms   258 ms  ge-6-21.car3.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.68.111.137]
  10   255 ms   267 ms   254 ms  ae-61-60.ebr1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.69.144.50]
  11   257 ms   257 ms   257 ms  ge-6-2-0-99.bbr1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.68.20.193]
  12   261 ms   262 ms   261 ms  as-1-0.mp1.SanDiego1.Level3.net [64.159.1.29]
  13   263 ms   261 ms   262 ms  so-10-0.hsa1.SanDiego1.Level3.net [4.68.113.38]
  14   258 ms   258 ms   258 ms  vl861.sdtermswitch-1.sonyonline.net [63.215.251.130]
  15   258 ms   260 ms   259 ms  vl831.sdkollsw-1.sonyonline.net [64.37.144.82]
  16   264 ms   261 ms   261 ms  eqworld-126.everquest.com [199.108.3.101]

 Trace complete.


Tracing route to eqworld-148.everquest.com [199.108.3.213]over a maximum of 30 hops:

   1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  10.1.1.1
   2    16 ms    18 ms    16 ms  nexthop.wa.ii.net [203.59.14.16]
   3    17 ms    17 ms    16 ms  gi2-3.per-qv1-bdr1.ii.net [203.215.4.28]
   4    71 ms    72 ms    71 ms  203.215.20.6
   5    74 ms    74 ms    75 ms  te0-6-1-0.syd-mas-core1.iinet.net.au [203.215.20.149]
   6    74 ms    74 ms    74 ms  static.net.reach.com [134.159.160.57]
   7    72 ms    71 ms    72 ms  unknown.net.reach.com [202.84.220.149]
   8   221 ms   221 ms   221 ms  i-2-0-1.wil-core02.bx.reach.com [202.84.144.101]
   9   222 ms   222 ms   368 ms  i-1-1.tlot03.bi.reach.com [202.84.251.234]
  10   255 ms   256 ms   255 ms  ge-6-20.car3.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.68.111.133]
  11   261 ms   255 ms   254 ms  ae-71-70.ebr1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.69.144.114]
  12   254 ms   254 ms   254 ms  ge-6-2-0-99.bbr1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.68.20.193]
  13   260 ms   318 ms   258 ms  as-1-0.mp1.SanDiego1.Level3.net [64.159.1.29]
  14   259 ms   258 ms   260 ms  so-10-0.hsa1.SanDiego1.Level3.net [4.68.113.38]
  15   257 ms   257 ms   256 ms  vl861.sdtermswitch-1.sonyonline.net [63.215.251.130]
  16   256 ms   260 ms   256 ms  vl831.sdkollsw-1.sonyonline.net [64.37.144.82]
  17   258 ms   256 ms   256 ms  eqworld-148.everquest.com [199.108.3.213]

 Trace complete.

Do each of these 16 or 17 servers send whatever is sent to them regardless or do they each filter would be hacker attacks or non-regulation packet sizes?

My problem is the same as it ever was.  And it's curious, and very, very frustrating.

70% of the time, the voice service offered through the Station Launcher WORKS.  I can log onto my guild's voice chat from there, and chat just fine.  However, the rest of the time I get the EXACT SAME PROBLEM as I do when I try to run the voice chat service from IN-game:

When in-game, for all intents and purposes, voice chat is working.  I can log into it in the sense that I can see my available channels, join them, see who's in them, and broadcast.  People CAN HEAR ME when I'm in the various voice channels (Group, Guild, Raid).  But I CAN NOT HEAR THEM.  And it's curious in this way: for the first 3 seconds, I can hear everything fine.  It sounds great, and the quality is crystal clear.  However, after those initial few seconds, everything just gets quiet and stays that way.  That's it.  I have to leave/re-join to hear anything again, and it's a repeat of what happened before.  SOMETIMES, EVENTUALLY, consistently leaving/re-joining will have the voice chat work properly, and I can hear and chat just fine.  No problems.  But that's 1% of the time.

It is NOT my sound card.  Drivers are up to date, and other voice services work on top of the one offered by Vivox (when it chooses to work that 1% of the time).  When voices stop broadcasting after the initial few seconds, I do NOT see the speech-bubble when they do broadcast (and I've tested it, not a fluke of any kind).  My router is up-to-date.  All required ports are open.  Everything is allowed through what flimsy firewall I do have.  Finally, voice chat WAS WORKING BEFORE LU52!

What, if anything, can I do?!  Because of this, I can't raid.  I CAN'T.  I can barely group.  People don't want someone they can't reliably communicate things to.  Just tonight, I ruined an instance because I couldn't hear the commincation about NOT looting an item.  I looted it.  Then I crashed when trying to get voice to work, and when I logged back in, that item (which was required for the last boss) was gone from my inventory.  The crash WAS DUE TO TRYING TO GET VOICE TO WORK.

Please, SOE, get this fixed and working properly again.  And PLEASE, give us SOME kind of reimbursement!  WEEKS of group play have been RUINED for me!  I've been forced to solo practically ALL of my post-50 content because no one can play with me reliably.  This whole situation is totally disheartening, and every time I see a "fix" prepared only to see that it's done NOTHING for me and many others...

Ugh.

Greyform wrote:

Heya Rothgar,

If you could. could you let us in on why a lot of these problem happened after the last GU (my headset issue for example). I have a few guildmates who are getting pretty frustrated with the problem. I think if you could just outline where you're at troubleshooting this and why rolling back to before the last GU is not something you want to do.

It would help as far as knowing there is a plan in place. Seeing someone logout because they are unable to join chat is a bummer. I know you don't want to put a timetable on a fix but some idea as to why we can't go back to before the last GU would be helpful.

Thanks

I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in an earlier post, but basically the changes to our voice system were done as a company-wide initiative that had to be coordinated with other game teams like EQ and SWG as well as the team thats working on the Station Launcher.  The deadlines and timetables were not something we could really control at the team level.  Yes, we learned some things from this experience.  Hopefully the remaining issues will be solved very quickly so voice chat can return to the quality and reliability that it was before the game update.

I'm also experiencing the same problem. Jumped through all the hoops for Sony, did the whole delete files thing, reset my router (which I know isn't the problem). Then I did the whole trace thing to be told my signal slows down. Obviously the guy who said that has no idea how networking works. A signal doesn't slow down; the return latency time increases because the return of your signal is based on how far it needs to travel. Idiot!! Then I was told to do the whole port forwarding step. Did that too, even disabled my firewall and the router's firewall to see if that was the problem, and to no surprise, there was no change. VC still doesn't work; I receive either error code 1071, 1072, 1073. Being a software support guy I, the first thing I ask a client when something goes wrong is: "What was the last thing you did?" Well, the last thing I did before the VC stopped working was LU52. I think Sony should review the changes that were made in LU52 as obviously that was where it started. They need to accept responsibility and fix the mess. I really can't believe that everyone all of a sudden has hardware and firewall issues when everything was working fine before LU52.I would like to see how they respond to this.