Vain wrote:

There's no money in the armourer business, tbh. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, a couple of plat here and there isn't much of anything. I would gladly take a hit in the "pocketbook" with respect to being an armourer and have a better balance with 4 spell rares.

T8 armorers make about 50-70g per combine by brokering the more popular incardine armor sets. While they don't have a really active market, the armor they do sell comes with a decent mark up. When you compair that to sage (typically works for the loam and no tip) it is more coin for less work AND with minimal customer interaction. (i.e. no waiting for someone that wants to commission your work)

Weaponsmiths are even less in demand, but due to rarity they can get better prices. Its only if they start undercutting each other that you have cheap t8 incardine weapons.

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

DominoDev wrote:

That would raise the price of mastercrafted armor and weapons to a point that they would not be worth buying.

As I keep trying to explain to you .. there is very little demand for Armor & Weapons .. to paraphrase .. they are at a point (with T7 to probably T9) that they are not worth buying in the first place, regardless of whether or not the Ore is used for Spell Upgrades or not. 

You can always finangle a few of the weapons (healer/mages types) to use Gems & Soft Metals .. and change the few symbol items that use Ore to use the Loam instead, since NOTHING else is used by the Rare Loam but Spell Upgrades.

A good Majority of Players have Shard Armor .. they will more than likely not see a reason to change to MasterCrafted in T9 as it would more than likely come out as a Downgrade.   Obviously anyone with their Epic also have little to no reason to what again effectively amounts to a Downgrade in T9.  

Spell Upgrades, Drink & Various other Consumables are the Top Tiers Main Sellers.   Not Wearables, except as a Fashion choice. 

This is a Cluster ___ waiting to happen. 

I disagree. There is a market for t8 armor now. When someone hits 72 if they wear metal they reach for incardine and they don't regret it. Sure they replace that armor as soon as they can but everybody does that.

I do worry about shard armor. Getting a full set of t1 armor isn't too terribly difficult. Getting a full set of t2 armor after that takes a while but it isn't like people grinding from 75 to 90 don't get xp from TSO instances. The t9 MC armor needs to be compeditive with t1 shard armor. Probably an upgrade from there. It doesn't need to be quite as good as t2 though. While the MC armor probably won't appeal to the initial rush of people that have been level 80 for over a year and getting equipment from TSO it should appeal to the johny come latelies you always get.

DominoDev wrote:

That would raise the price of mastercrafted armor and weapons to a point that they would not be worth buying.

Except that the current proposal (to put all expert-level spells on the gem nodes) will make jewelry so expensive to be not worth buying.

There's good ideas in the other thread about this change (such as a universal spell rare, or spreading rare loams only to the BUSH nodes instead of having root there) that explain why the current "plan" isn't good either.

Meirril wrote:

Just one point of contention. By removing loam from ore nodes you are also removing the major incentive to harvest ore nodes.

Gawd I hope so.. Some players harvest nodes for means besides their own selfish gains. Not many though these days.

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

Meirril wrote:

Just one point of contention. By removing loam from ore nodes you are also removing the major incentive to harvest ore nodes.

Gawd I hope so.. Some players harvest nodes for means besides their own selfish gains. Not many though these days.

Their own selfish gains  keeps me from having to go out there myself  and saves me tons of time I would otherwise have spent harvesting. Short of harvesting for other people for absolutely no gain, what isn't selfish in the context you placed it?

Loam = EPIC FAIL!    I am soo glad this is going away!!!

I would prefer that any rare from that teir could be used to make the spell upgrade and leave loams ingame, that way the price will even out across all the rares

Meirril wrote:

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

DominoDev wrote:

That would raise the price of mastercrafted armor and weapons to a point that they would not be worth buying.

As I keep trying to explain to you .. there is very little demand for Armor & Weapons .. to paraphrase .. they are at a point (with T7 to probably T9) that they are not worth buying in the first place, regardless of whether or not the Ore is used for Spell Upgrades or not. 

*snipped*

I disagree. There is a market for t8 armor now. When someone hits 72 if they wear metal they reach for incardine and they don't regret it. Sure they replace that armor as soon as they can but everybody does that.

oh yah .. a "market" .. I'm not sure what your server market is like but the other day when I was scrolling through T8 MC Plate & Chain what I noticed was it was going for anywhere from 40g to 60g, sure there were a few plat ones but who's going to buy the most expensive piece vs the cheap one? ... You realize of course that MC costs 10g and 20g if Imbued.  That's ignoring the 'cost' associated with the Rare and for some reason people think Smoldering Material is a Rare, too.

Yes, the MC does 'fill a gap' but if the gap is a matter of 10points in stats spread through-out .. is it really an Upgrade? Is it really worth it?

Funny story .. I was online about a week ago .. and someone was spamming all the channels looking for an Armorer to make him a set of T8 Plate.   He said he had the Rares.  Didn't say what or if he'd pay for fuels & tip but generally assumed, right? o.O.  ... He spammed all day long with people replying that there is tons of MC Plate on the Broker and it was totally cheap and why would he bother to buy the armor, anyway .. Just do some solo quests in RoK and he'd have a better set, anyway. 

The problem starts in T7 and just gets worse in T8 .. and more than likely will be even worse in T9.   The stats of MC compared to Treasured Drops/Quested are worse off in a lot of different ways.   The easiest Solo Quested Treasured item has More direct H & P and more varied effects/bonuses.   I know 'cause I've only done a few quests in RoK and have all my jewelry slots filled with quested stuff and random drops off the broker.  

Why go for the cookie cutter stuff when you can run a few quests and get something way more appropriate for your class?   Because, you feel you should?  Because, you have extra Rare Ore?   Because, the Main ingredient is dirt cheap?  Because, the Completed item is also dirt cheap?   Is that what you want to tell your customers?  

I thought we Crafters were willing to grind lvls & factions till our eyes bleed black blood to have something worthwhile to sell .. not just because it 'fills the gap' for a couple of days ...

Yes, I can make money with MC with all my TS classes.  But, it's only a matter of chump change in the T7-8.  The real money is in the Lower Tiers.  Heck, T2-6 MC can go for a 1-2p and I can harvest up my own rares in less than 2 hours.  Though, if you have the Shard recipes .. donations can be sweet and it doesn't cost the Crafter anything but time! But, then again .. it's not really Crafted.  It's an alternative option to purchasing the same thing off the merchant for a few shards less.

However, regardless of the failure of higher Tier itemization .. The fact that removing Loam and switching them to share the same bloody node as 2 other classes .. is and I repeat .. a potential fraking disaster in the making.

Fighters and Scouts were complaining about Sharing 1 rare that had NO other use.   How much more are they going to complain now that they have to share it with another class and also Jewelry & House items?   I suppose that could be an inherent fix.   Instead of the 2 classes complaining .. all 4 classes can complain, at least we'll all be balanced in our whining.   Ya, there's SOE logic right there.

The Spell Rare doesn't have to be switched to Ore or have another Rare added.  They really were fine with sharing the 1 node.   Since, this whole thing was supposed to fix the Rares to be more even .. Loam was/is only used for 1 thing.  Spell Upgrades .. just for 2 classes.  Still makes sense to me just to leave it, Ore was just an option 'cause in Higher Tiers the demand for Armor/Weapons is drastically less than the demand for the Spell Upgrades and it would have been on the same Node as the Loam, making it symmetrical with the other 2 classes on their Node.  

As an alternative suggestion, if Domino could maybe add in a small bonus towards potentially harvesting the Rare Loam compared to Rare Ore but, leave the common Ore/Loam % still the same as it is .. that might work out better than the current proposal.

*shrug*.

Nink wrote:

I would prefer that any rare from that teir could be used to make the spell upgrade and leave loams ingame, that way the price will even out across all the rares

I don't agree with using all rares but would weather see loams stay and have loams/soft metals be usuable for all classes then totally get rid loams all together.

.............. oh yeah can you please stay away from making carpenter recipes with class's rares this time in T9? I can see maybe one or two but not like T8 for it was to many. At least use hard metal this time and wouldn't mind seeing some of t8 ones still be changed  to use hard metal still. As of today I have not ever uesd emeralds for the price of the rare is better being spell then being a peice furniture out it.

DominoDev wrote:

That would raise the price of mastercrafted armor and weapons to a point that they would not be worth buying.

No offense, but they aren't now...if you are discussing T7 and T8.

I really think each arch-type should have their own rares and not share.  It was the sharing of fighers and scouts that caused such a shortage and high prices.  Now making only 2 shared rares that are each shared by 2 classes is the wrong direction.  You just really need to make a 4th rare so no 2 classes have to use the same one.  Fish are really under utilized....even bushes.

Arielle Nightshade wrote:

DominoDev wrote:

That would raise the price of mastercrafted armor and weapons to a point that they would not be worth buying.

No offense, but they aren't now...if you are discussing T7 and T8.

Of course they arn't, the game has 2 expansions worth of tradeable legendary gear up for sale.

Armoring. . . ugh

I dropped that tradeskill and went alchy /flexors, Katanallama the lvl 36 alchemist roar!

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

DominoDev wrote:

That would raise the price of mastercrafted armor and weapons to a point that they would not be worth buying.

As I keep trying to explain to you .. there is very little demand for Armor & Weapons .. to paraphrase .. they are at a point (with T7 to probably T9) that they are not worth buying in the first place, regardless of whether or not the Ore is used for Spell Upgrades or not. 

I don't quite understand ... you seem to be suggesting that since they aren't desirable in T7+ now, I should totally ignore those classes and go ahead and implement a change that would make them not only undesirable but also unaffordable?

I'd rather avoid either -- surely it's a better solution to work towards making the armor more desirable, and not force it into the same price range as spell upgrades. 

DominoDev wrote:

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

DominoDev wrote:

That would raise the price of mastercrafted armor and weapons to a point that they would not be worth buying.

As I keep trying to explain to you .. there is very little demand for Armor & Weapons .. to paraphrase .. they are at a point (with T7 to probably T9) that they are not worth buying in the first place, regardless of whether or not the Ore is used for Spell Upgrades or not. 

I don't quite understand ... you seem to be suggesting that since they aren't desirable in T7+ now, I should totally ignore those classes and go ahead and implement a change that would make them not only undesirable but also unaffordable?

I'd rather avoid either -- surely it's a better solution to work towards making the armor more desirable, and not force it into the same price range as spell upgrades. 

It's not that mastercrafted armor & weapons aren't "desirable", it's that -- with so many guildie armorers & weaponcrafters willing to make it for materials -- that it's not "worth buying" from the broker.