Game Play Concept: Apprenticeship System + Spendable XP

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Re:A-Tab or A-System first for you?

AdeptStrain wrote:

Loche and I have talked quite a bit about a true apprentice system (as recently as last week), but the common end result is always the same: It is a huge task and will take quite a bit of time/resources to do properly. That's not to say we don't want to do it, quite the opposite really, but rather that we simply don't have the time right now to fit in such a large system.

 Re:Extra Character Slots, New Species - Character Metamorphosis...

AdeptStrain wrote:

Blixtev and I talked about "spendable XP" a few months back. I think it's a wonderful mechanic. The sad realization is that SWG has no such concept of spendable XP. I'm pretty sure any XP over CL 90 is just tossed away and not actually stored - but I could be wrong. We would have to create a system that puts all excess XP after CL 90 into your XP Bank.

I hope to add the system in the future, but right now we're just too busy with Hoth and everything else.

I don't think new player species will happen any time soon just because the amount of setup that is required to integrate a new player species is HUGE. It's probably a solid month or two long task with everyone working on it. Plus that is one more species we have to take into account when making wearables. I think the art department would kill me if we told them we were adding another odd looking humanoid into the mix.

That said, I'm a big fan of the whole spendable XP thing and I'd love to see it in-game at some point.

Synopsis

Grouping with other players is a fundamental part of an MMORPG, we've all taken part in some form of grouping, I'm sure.  There are several issues with grouping in SWG that make that grouping experience significantly less rewarding for the participants than it could be.

There are three significant barriers to grouping with players that are significantly higher or lower level than you.

• Low level players grouped with high level players gaining experience on high level MObs are effected by 96% damage reduction on all their attacks.
  
• Low level players grouped with high level players gaining experience on low level MObs receive no or minimal XP.
  
• Combat level 90 players have no use for experience points and therfore have no need to assist others in gaining experience other than being altruistic.

Low level players grouped with high level players gaining experience on high level MObs:

Notice in the combat log that Combat Level 54 Orest can only score glancing blows against the white con nightsister when grouped with CL90 TEELC.

Solution: Base the PvE Glancing Blow chance modifier on highest level player in the group.

Low level players grouped with high level players gaining experience on low level MObs:

It was a tough fight for Orest, but he bested the CL60 Charred Krevol!  As he was grouped with the CL90 player TEELC he only got 2XP though.  This is because the "group combat level" is set to CL90, and Orest is gaining XP as if he was CL90, not combat level 52.

Solution: Exemplar/Mentoring/Sidekick - "Apprenticeship" System.

How Exemplar (temporarily reducing your level) works in City of Heroes:

How Mentoring (temporarily reducing your level) works in EverQuest II:

How Sidekicking (temporarily increasing your level) works in City of Heroes:

A hero can establish a Sidekick -- a lower level character whom he or she aids and mentors. The sidekick's effective level is then boosted up to 1-3 levels below the mentor (the exact number is based on how much difference in level there is between the mentor and sidekick).

The sidekick's damage, Hit Points, Defence, and Accuracy are all increased to this new level. Enhancements continue to provide the same level of effectiveness. However, the sidekick gets no new powers or abilities due to being sidekicked. The sidekick's earned experience is modified as if they were still fighting foes near their actual level -- which means you can't "powerlevel" via sidekicking.

How it could work in SWG:

Temporarily reducing your level: Once grouped with a player that is lower level than you, you would have an option to become their "Guardian".

Once they consent to this action, the higher level player would receive a statistics debuff relative to the number of levels difference between the apprentice and Guardian.  This debuff would reduce health, action and other factors such as damage output, similar to "Cloning Sickness" and the Beast Master damage reduction debuff.

The Apprentice of the Guardian would receive an experience gain buff of around 5% while being an Apprentice to a Guardian and experience gain is calculated as if both players are the same combat level.

Up to seven players can be a Guardian to one apprentice, this would make the group the same level if they all set the same player as an Apprentice and would allow them to participate in content and gain experience together.

Temporarily increasing your level: Once grouped with a player that is lower level than you, you would have an option to take them as your "Apprentice".

This action brings the lower level players level up to match yours for the purposes of grouping.  Health, action and damage ouput are increased for the Apprentice and experience gain is calculated as if both players are the same combat level.

If either player comes under attack in PvP combat, be it as a Bounty Hunter mark or otherwise, the Apprenticeship is cancelled and both players return to their original level and statistics.

Combat level 90 players have no use for experience points and therefore have no need to assist lower level players in gaining experience other than being altruistic.

Any and all Experience points gained after combat level 90 are currently lost, there is no record kept of experience gain beyond level 90.

From a personal experience, I remember when the Village of Aurilla was first implemented, my maximum level character at the time went from having no need for experience points to having a use for every quest and experience point that I could accumulate.  For me this one again opened up areas of gameplay that had previously been of little interest.

Solution: Spendable XP.

In EverQuest II, any combat or quest experience gained by the character is turned into "Achievement Experience", but this is more like EverQuest II's version of SWG's Expertise System and "Achievement Experience" is earned as a character levels up and then used to buy abilities, here's a bit more info on it:

Achievements 

The Achievements system offers a new way for you to improve your characters’ powers while individualizing them at the same time.

Achievement experience is earned in a variety of ways, including:

• Completing quests
• Defeating notorious enemies
• Obtaining rare treasures
• Exploring new places
• Gaining experience after reaching your level cap

Achievement experience can be earned by characters Level 10 and above. Each exploration, notable enemy defeat, or treasure discovery will only count as an achievement once.

Characters that have reached the Level 70 cap will have a portion of their earned experience applied to achievement experience.

As you gain achievement levels, you gain Achievement Points you can spend to acquire new powers and abilities that will set your character apart from the crowd.

For example, Warriors may advance their training with a weapon of their choice, learn new combat abilities, or customize their fighting style. Mages can gain greater control of their arcane abilities, allowing them to adjust how they cast their spells to suit their preference. 

Some of the ideas on rewards for spending XP in SWG are as follows:

• 25% Respec Cost Reduction Voucher
• 50% Respec Cost Reduction Voucher
• 75% Respec Cost Reduction Voucher
• Weapon/Armor Augmentation Items
• Trading Card Game Cards
• New Weapon Schematics c
• New Armor Schematics
• New Craftable Schematics (food, structures, space, droids, entertainer items, etc)
• New Speeder Schematics
• Paintings, Holos, other Decorative Items
• New DNA for Beast Masters
• Quest Datapads - Combat (purchased and examined to accept dangerous group quests)
• Quest Datapads - Space (purchased and examined to accept dangerous space missions with great payouts)

Any and all feedback on any of these concepts is appreciated!

/support

I have played EQ2 off and on occasionaly and I have to admit their mentoring system is fricking fantastic and is something SWG needs.

What I would change from your proposal is alter the xp bonus from 5% to 10%. Five percent would be ok, but not much of an incentive. You can get 15% from watching an entertainer for a few minutes, you should get more than just 5% for having an actual person partner up with you.

What I would change from your proposal is alter the xp bonus from 5% to 10%. Five percent would be ok, but not much of an incentive. You can get 15% from watching an entertainer for a few minutes, you should get more than just 5% for having an actual person partner up with you.

That 5% is based on the fact that it would stack with the 15% Entertainer buff for a maximum of 20%, which is the hardcap for all XP gain buffs.

In fact you have a point, why not just make it 20% in the first place and let the Apprentice save entertainer buff points for something more combat orientated.

TottCophii wrote:

What I would change from your proposal is alter the xp bonus from 5% to 10%. Five percent would be ok, but not much of an incentive. You can get 15% from watching an entertainer for a few minutes, you should get more than just 5% for having an actual person partner up with you.

That 5% is based on the fact that it would stack with the 15% Entertainer buff for a maximum of 20%, which is the hardcap for all XP gain buffs.

In fact you have a point, why not just make it 20% in the first place and let the Apprentice save entertainer buff points for something more combat orientated.

Entertainers giving XP buffs is a good thing, and I'd hate to see it change.

I'd say they should change the hardcap. It might take some work, but if the system is going to be worked on then I don't see why it can't happen.

Also, what about entertainers or traders, any ideas for them to use this system?

Also, what about entertainers or traders, any ideas for them to use this system?

The group XP system for Entertainer XP doesn't factor in Combat Level, just number of group members.

There is no group XP system for crafting XP, maybe there should be one.

I loved this feature in City of Villains/Heroes.  It allowed lower levels to play with their higher level friends.  So if my friend just got the game, hes obviously leveling as fast as he can, but that still takes a while.  Maybe one night he wants to come do something with me, I can scale him to my level and have fun with him even though hes not lvl 90.  I love it.

Indeed. I'd like to see a system that allows lower levels to play with higher levels at the group level, similar to how it did during CU. From what I've heard, COV/COH has both systems, where a higher level can reduce in level and a lower level can increase in group level.

This would encourage groups of players to take along lower level Guild members and friends on Group activities. Even without the high damage attacks, having the defences to survive those encounters will give them some enjoyment.

The problem with the other system on it's own is that it relies on having people willing to go out of their way to help a newbie. Which wont happy anywhere near the frequency of a group of higher levels willing to allow a low level tag along.

Lets face it, the main enjoyment in SWG comes from high level content. Other games are far ahead of SWG in terms of low-mid level content. So having lower levels not feel so separated from the rest of the level 90 characters would be a good way to foster a better community experience.

This would encourage groups of players to take along lower level Guild members and friends on Group activities. Even without the high damage attacks, having the defences to survive those encounters will give them some enjoyment.

The problem with the other system on it's own is that it relies on having people willing to go out of their way to help a newbie. Which wont happy anywhere near the frequency of a group of higher levels willing to allow a low level tag along.

Lets face it, the main enjoyment in SWG comes from high level content. Other games are far ahead of SWG in terms of low-mid level content. So having lower levels not feel so separated from the rest of the level 90 characters would be a good way to foster a better community experience.

The only problem with grouping low level players with high level players for high level content right now is that the low level players still get the 100% Glancing Blow chance for MObs being more than 15 levels above their own combat level, even though the group combat level now makes CL90 MObs con white to them.

We could incentivise being a Master to an Apprentice somehow if it is deemed necessary, some form of reward for a set amount of progression by an apprentice is given to the master for example.

Mentoring, yes please.

Anach wrote:

This would encourage groups of players to take along lower level Guild members and friends on Group activities. Even without the high damage attacks, having the defences to survive those encounters will give them some enjoyment.

The problem with the other system on it's own is that it relies on having people willing to go out of their way to help a newbie. Which wont happy anywhere near the frequency of a group of higher levels willing to allow a low level tag along.

Lets face it, the main enjoyment in SWG comes from high level content. Other games are far ahead of SWG in terms of low-mid level content. So having lower levels not feel so separated from the rest of the level 90 characters would be a good way to foster a better community experience.

The only problem with grouping low level players with high level players for high level content right now is that the low level players still get the 100% Glancing Blow chance for MObs being more than 15 levels above their own combat level, even though the group combat level now makes CL90 MObs con white to them.

We could incentivise being a Master to an Apprentice somehow if it is deemed necessary, some form of reward for a set amount of progression by an apprentice is given to the master for example.

Yes the GB is an issue, but surely the low level player's attacks could be given an artificial boost, in the same way the mentors abilities are artifically lowered. This wouldnt give the player anymore attacks than their profession level allows, but it would give them a chance to do damage to mobs.

You mean a collection? I'd really rather see people grouping because they want to, not because they want to grind out incentives.

Imagine this. You invite you best buddy to the game and he joins your Guild. Now with the mentor system you can go out and specifically help him level up, you and him together, doing the quests you've done a dozen times before, but when it comes time for the big boys (90s) to play, he is left out. You go off to do your dungeon run, he cant come, you do some quest and he cant come along. He is relying on you or others willing to mentor him.

I remember the feeling I got when I was master Marksman, and got invited to Dath, I couldnt even afford to pay for Doc buffs. A friendly doc in the group gave me free buffs, I was using a set of armour that a friend gave me and we went Rancor hunting all night. I felt involved, I was helping out, even in my limited capacity and I was able to take a break from my constant, endless grind to gain some bonus XP and have some fun.

It was similar during the CU, except groups required certain classes (healer and tank mostly), and then others could be almost any level. Low levels did little damage to the lairs, and were kept alive by the medics, but again they were participating in the larger game. Instead of being shoved off into some little Legacy quest or AFK pet grind which they are now. The most common thing a lower level player hears is "Sorry you are too low level".

The only thing that I really disliked about the whole experience was that the Smugglers that were with me knew that they could get more xp from just completing their Daily missions.  As much fun as we had, essentially their purporse was to get to CL90 and by grouping with me, I was in a way slowing them down. 

Once they've done their ten missions then grouping and killing high level MObs with you would give them more XP over time than doing it solo.

You're all within similar levels of each other in that scenario, and although you are capped you are gaining collection kills while they get XP.

Anach wrote:

Imagine this. You invite you best buddy to the game and he joins your Guild. Now with the mentor system you can go out and specifically help him level up, you and him together, doing the quests you've done a dozen times before, but when it comes time for the big boys (90s) to play, he is left out. You go off to do your dungeon run, he cant come, you do some quest and he cant come along. He is relying on you or others willing to mentor him.

I remember the feeling I got when I was master Marksman, and got invited to Dath, I couldnt even afford to pay for Doc buffs. A friendly doc in the group gave me free buffs, I was using a set of armour that a friend gave me and we went Rancor hunting all night. I felt involved, I was helping out, even in my limited capacity and I was able to take a break from my constant, endless grind to gain some bonus XP and have some fun.

It was similar during the CU, except groups required certain classes (healer and tank mostly), and then others could be almost any level. Low levels did little damage to the lairs, and were kept alive by the medics, but again they were participating in the larger game. Instead of being shoved off into some little Legacy quest or AFK pet grind which they are now. The most common thing a lower level player hears is "Sorry you are too low level".

The only reason that you might not want an extra lower level player along is that they will output nothing but glancing blows, otherwise they are extra DPS any way you look at it.

They aren't likely to draw aggro if they play smart and let the bigger guns wade in first.

I definitely feel this could be a good step for SWG an helping friends and other players in the game. Whatever method chosen to adjust the player level would help the process of leveling and be a beneficial aspect for all players.

If Possible, I would take advantage of this opportunity to help level alts and others in a more fun and productive way.