Hard Light Powers & Power Combos Damage (w/ Stats)

Discussion in 'Powers, Weapons, and Movement' started by ARCHIVED-DaSpartan, Sep 29, 2011.

  1. 1/5/2011 - There have been some adjustments to HL DPS since these stats were tested, but I am finished testing myself ATM. Fan has, in fact, been ninja nurfed, which is why I don't DPS with HL anymore. If anyone is interested in retesting any stats below that appear incorrect, please PM me and I will provide any information that I have about proper testing and will update this page. Additionally, please feel free to use the information here for your own uses as you see fit. Let's keep the community strong!
    10/5/2011 - reworked effective damage stats with help of Warlan. To make a long story short, the method used by Frzn was a bit counter-intuitive and the damage multiplier I used previously was lower than it should have been for mortar when combined with the rest of the formula. I have redone the formulas to eliminate the issue and have applied the appropriate percent of listed damage multiplier of 1.34x. However, this means that assumed weapon damage will be MUCH higher than before (although more accurate). This has lowered effective damage dramatically.
    Keep in mind, also, that AOE attacks like fan, spikequake, etc have much higher effective damage against multiple enemies. All a negative effective damage number means is that you are better of spamming weapon combos than using that power against a single target, not necessarily multiple targets. The effective damage done to multiple targets by, say, fan would almost certainly be well into the positive, but I don't have data for how much. If anyone wants to test how much these powers degrade against multiple enemies, you would be my hero and I would gladly update the data
    10/4/2011 - Retested and/or spot checked all the powers after Update 5. The only major changes I found so far were changes to Grasping Hand. Its ticks have been exchanged for a initial burst of damage in dps stance, and in controller stance the damage is now pretty minimal. I only included the dps version of grasping hand on the spreadsheet, and I will make a note that the damage there is class specific so people remember. (In controller stance, GH does 12 damage lol).
    As always, if you notice something or think it looks wrong, send me your testing data (25 replicates w/out buff) along with your precision, weapon dps, and might.
    Hard Light Damage Thread w/ Stats

    The purpose of this thread is to provide some damage stats for the newest DCUO class, Hard Light and to create a place for discussion of the various powers, combos, etc. The basic numbers provided are unbuffed, so they will hold for characters in either controller or dps mode (although controllers will likely not have as much might/precision, of course). There are also buffed numbers for the DPS'ers who want to know damage after a power has been cast.
    Hard Light (HL) is an interesting class because of the ability of HL to chain powers together. This also, IMHO, makes it even more important to pay attention to which powers are optimal; HL can be lots of fun, but if you get carried away doing the wrong things, your DPS won't do very much to help out the alert/raid.
    If you have anything you would like to add, please send me a PM, as I may not be see your post as quickly.
    Note: this data is presented and calculated in large part using the methods created by Frzn. You can see his initial post here. Many, many thanks to him!

    Testing Methods
    Damage and duration testing was done in controller mode on target dummies in the watchtower with 25 replicates for damage powers.
    Controller mode was used to ensure that the damage buff did not skew any of the data. Most powers have a 95% confidence interval of <6, and only a few have >10.
    Power costs were tested by casting the power, and then tapping the range button periodically to refill the power meter. The results in the combat log were then added up.
    Cast time refers to the duration of the animation, i.e., the time during which the power activation prevents you from doing damage. Recast time is the time between the beginning of the casting animation and the time when the power can be used again. It takes into account the cast time and the cooldown, as well as any overlap between the two. Both were timed with a stopwatch and rounded to the nearest 1/4 second.
    Damage was done against a single target. Some aoe powers will do more damage, obviously, when there are more enemies in the aoe. In some cases, the damage to each target will also be cut when there are multiple targets in the aoe – this amount varies from power to power [unverified].

    Effective Damage
    Effective Damage is a metric suggested by Tene here as a way to determine max dps and efficiency rotations, as well as a way to determine which powers provide less than optimal damage output. It looks to determine how much better casting a power is than simply spamming weapon combos*.
    *For our purposes, we use percentage of listed dps as a multiplier, i.e. the average DPS of a weapon / the listed dps of the weapon (e.g. 97.1 dps) + precision dps (precision/10). This is not to be confused with Tehm's Base DPS %, which uses a different calculation to figure damage multipliers. You can calculate your own listed dps % for a particular combo by dividing your average weapon combo damage by the seconds it takes to cast it, then dividing that by your listed weapon damage (weapon dps + (precision/10)).
    Essentially, effective damage combines the users weapon, precision, and the damage increase granted by the user’s weapon combo to come up with a baseline weapon damage. Then, it takes in the damage output of a given power and the amount of time it takes to cast it. The difference between weapon damage and a power’s damage in the time it takes to cast the power is effective damage.
    Effective Damage = Power Damage - (Weapon Combo Dps * Power Cast Time)
    Effective Damage per Power = Effective Damage/ Power Cost
    The charts use a 97.1 dps weapon and 229 precision for a base DPS of 120. A weapon combo of 1.34x (the multiplier for the rifle combo mortar, one of the harder hitting combos) is applied to determine effective damage. Additionally, the default might is set at 1404. Keep in mind that if you are using weaker weapon combos or have might higher than 1404 your effective damage will be higher than listed below.
    An additional column has been added that calculates in a damage buff under the column “Buffed Damage.” The charts apply a 45% damage buff unless it is power + combo damage, in which case the combo is always going to have the buff granted by the power cast before it rather than the previous buff. Similarly, the effective buffed damage = buffed power damage - weapon damage with the same buff.
    Effective Damage per Recast = Effective Damage / Recast. This is like effective damage but takes spammability (by time rather than power) into account.
    Final Note: if something looks wrong to you, please test it and report your findings, making sure to include the tester’s might & precision while testing. This is especially true after patches & updates. The more testing that gets done, the better!

    Cast Powers
    This section primarily focuses on the initial cast of the Hard Light powers, with a few also including the logical combo extension of the primary attack. Unless otherwise noted as “combo” in the description, the powers use Might to determine the magnitude of the attack.
    Ram and Impact require the user to be at melee range for all 3 ticks to register. The farther the user is from the target, the fewer ticks will register, down to one.
    Light Claw continues with either a tapped or a held melee attack. Both are included here separately. Chainsaw is supposed to continue with either tapped or held melee, but all hold melee seems to do is cause him to hold the chainsaw in the air without attacking anyone.
    The Grasping Hand Pull is done by holding melee after casting Grasping Hand. You can still continue on to Light Blast, but the window for continuing the combo is small.
    Grasping hand was tested in DPS mode in the latest update. In controller mode it only hits for minimal damage, even when used as a cast power (I was hitting for 12s when I tested it). In either case, I am probably only going to include the dps version from now on until they buff the controller version of GH beyond "pitiful."
    Chompers hits only 5 times in DPS stance but hits for 14 times in controller stance.
    Snap trap ticks 9 times in DPS only. You only get the initial hit in controller stance.

    Some other powers that don’t cause damage, but I figured I would include here for the sake of thoroughness:

    Name Power Used Effect
    Recharge 300 Restores Power to Teammates; also grants 77 might and 62 precision
    Light Barrier 350 Surrounds you in protective bubble
    Shielding 450 Constructs a wall/shield for you and teammates
    Triage 350 Heals 664[avg] damage to yourself via 9 ticks, interruptable
    Entrap 300 Encases enemies in bubble

    Power Combos
    This section focuses on the damage done by HL powers chained after an initial power has been cast. The following is a simple cheat sheet for the different ways powers can be combined:


    You can also see a "mind map" of how all the HL powers interact here.

    HL power combo damage is determined by the weapon dps and precision of the user, easily identifiable by their numbers displaying in white.
    Note that the damage of Fan has been dramatically increased and Grasping Hand has been dramatically decreased in their combo forms. It should also be noted that Light Weight’s damage here only includes the thrown weight and none of the spinning damage.
  2. Multiple Power Combos
    The following list is of a few combinations of powers. Since the number of possible combos is nearly endless, I only listed a few of the ones that I do or see done on a regular basis.

    I also sorted the multiple combo list by damage divided by cast time (d/c). I found that that d/c was a bit more helpful for evaluating combos than effective damage, since it helps compare apples to apples between longer and shorter combos (longer combos will often have greater/less effective damage if the powers used in the combo have positive/negative effective damage, but that doesn't mean that back to back shorter combos wouldn't do more damage). The list here is sorted from best to worst d/c.

    The lesson learned here IMHO (at least from a damage stat standpoint)? Don't combo into light blast if the target(s) are not below 35% health, and don't use grasping hand in any combo.
    You can download a copy of my spreadsheet yourself HERE (updated 10/5/2011). The first page has spaces in RED for you to punch in your own stats, weapon combo %, and any damage buff you want to cast. All other formulas will update from the "Your Stats" sheet – you don’t have to change anything on the data pages themselves.
    Hope this helps, and happy Trolling/DPS'ing!
    The Spartan
  3. I believe the effetive damage component is most important. i commend you and the creator of the methodology for a nice piece of analysis
  4. Sir, people like you make this game even better. Thanks in the name of all HL dps.
  5. Huge amount of respect for people like you who take the time to do this stuff.
  6. Wow... just play the dumb game.... and catch some tail every once in awhile
  7. Excellent job. Only thing that caught my eye: is that the effective damage is more than the effective BD. YOu might want to check that out. Shouldn't the buffed damage be more.

    --edit-- nvm i understand. your wep attacks are also buffed.
  8. this is great one question so what your saying is that snap trap combo with fan is hands down the best combo that can be spammable to get great dmg ?
  9. Great work. You should use a higher damage multiplier for your weapons...2.1 used to be fairly common as it was a comparison to mortar spam. At 2.1 though, you'll see that most powers end up being worse than using a weapon...were you able to tell which of the HL powers do not split damage?
  10. Warlan wrote:
    Really helpful suggestion. As this is going to be a work in progress, it will help everyone if we make this data as accurate and helpful as possible.
    I guess I should probably not link to the Tehm page to avoid confusion. The reason why is because Tehm didn't use the listed dps of the weapon (for example, 97.1 dps) to calculate his Base DPS stat. You can see this in the spreadsheet he linked to his post here - the "percent of listed damage" of a combo that had a 1.76x base dps only did damage that was 109% of the listed dps of the weapon. Since we are using listed weapon dps to calculate our hypothetical weapon attack, a weapon combo that does 109% of listed dps should only have a multiplier of 1.09 for our purposes.
    A multiplier of 2.1x, for effective damage purposes, should only be used for a weapon combo that does 210% of listed weapon damage per second. As far as I know, no weapon in the game currently does that much damage each second - all the combos that hit in that range of damage do so over several seconds.
    Mortar, under Tehm's testing, did 134% of listed dps, so I plugged in 1.3x as my multiplier. I will, when I get a chance, do testing with mortar and repost the stats updated with the updated weapon combo if it is more than 1.3x listed weapon dps + precision.
    In the meantime, don't forget that you can download my spreadsheet and update it with whatever weapon combo, precision, might, etc that you want to fit your needs.
    P.S. As far as splitting damage between multiple targets goes, so far it seems that most of the AOE powers do split the damage pretty heavily. Light blast is the most disappointing, especially since the all the targets in your AOE may not have less than 35% health. I was hoping it would be more like final ruin.
    Just eyeballing the damage (which is never the best way to base an opinion, but you do what you can) it looks like the super charges and fan (used within a combo) both do a pretty good job of not reducing their damage as much when used on multiple enemies.
    I am interested in the aoe splitting numbers as well, and if someone wants to test properly that I would happily link to it.
  11. I just noticed that you're the leader of obliteration. I used yalls forums for building up my ice tank/dps.
  12. frankthetank wrote:
    Yep - that and grasping hand < grasping hand pull (hold melee) < fan. However, snap trap is quicker than GH, so if there are a bunch of enemies its probably best to just use snap trap so you can get more fan attacks in (it has great AOE damage). Grasping hand < pull < fan is helpful against single targets, and if you are in troller mode it debuffs the target too.
  13. Thank you ! This explains why my DMG output on the FOS Pug on my alt was making me want to cry. That PUG raid was probably wondering what my problem was.
    I was comboing using GH and Light blast. Seriously SOE, thanks for making horrible combos with 50% dmg boost final tier powers. I mean, i figured "Final ruin style" for Light Blast right?
    Guess I'll be Snap Trapping and Fanning like every other HL now.
  14. cqghost wrote:
    Hey cqg, glad you found the ice info useful on our League site - its a bit Dusty (since update 4), but give a shout if you ever have any questions or wanna chat ice shop.
  15. Maialyn wrote:
    I think your intuition about how the combos should work was correct; GH with the GH Pull and Light Blast, when used against a single target below 35% health, is actually a really solid combo. The problem is multiple targets split the damage too much if you are trying to kill just one target, and light blast's damage when the enemy is above 35% is just terrible.
    I ran into the same thing against the first boss in FOS the first time I ran it. My light blast was hitting everything in the room for 4 damage each lol.
  16. DaSpartan wrote:
  17. DaSpartan wrote:
    Yeah...Light Blast sounded so great on paper...then they went and made it into a Mass Terror type of power...even worse when it's only good at 35% or less health and not stackable.
  18. At least I only wasted 2 weeks of my life using Light Blast and GH on my alt. If this was not an alt, I would have smashed my PS3 over my own head.
  19. Maialyn wrote:
    You should smash it over your head anyway...how could you use it for two weeks and not realize it was horrible????
  20. Warlan wrote:
    Well it's my 3rd toon, not my primary so when I say "using it for 2 weeks" i mean, when I played my alt. Yesterday I played this alt a lot and realized it. I also chalked it up to "I must be doing these combos wrong"
    Call me naive but when a power is in the 3rd tier and gives a 50% bonus, I expect it to be good. I know, coming from a gadgets player with Bomb and Clown Box, I should have learned to expect FINAL TIER POWERS to be absolute garbage. I guess I was weak and optimistic for no good reason.

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