Skill Points Needed to Max Out Innates

Discussion in 'Oracle’s Database (Guides)' started by Octantis, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. Octantis Well-Known Member

    AWESOME SKILL POINT ALLOCATION GUIDE - (With colorful spreadsheets!)
    (Up-To-Date as of April 12, 2013, to include also Update 25 changes to Weapon Trees)

    FORWARD
    At the bottom of all weapon trees are a series of boosts to the core stats of your character, we call them Innates. As of U25, the ammount has been expanded by an additional tier or row of innates. For reference of the guide, we'll call "Tier 1 Innates" the upper level of skills that allow you to dump a maximum of 3 points in each innate, and we'll call "Tier 2 Innates" the bottom level of skills with a maximum point dump of 6.

    The point of this guide is mainly to see what your Skill Points can get you in the way of stat boosts from the Innates. It can also be used to give yourself a goal to reach. It's not really to tell you how much your stats will improve by, although I did through in a graph for those on request.

    DISCLAIMER
    This guide only shows the amount of Skill Points needed to max out innates, and therefore does not take into account the SP required for additional weapon combos or anything in the Movement trees. The graphs also do take into account the Shield Weapon from the Last Laugh Downloadable Content pack. If you don't have that DLC, and therefore don't have the Shield weapon, subtract it out of the calculations below using methods described later in the guide.

    BASE CALCULATIONS
    In every weapon tree, it takes 4 Skill Points to unlock the Innates, meaning that if you want to put one SP toward a Health boost, you would need to spend a total of 5 SP to get it. Therefore, to max out a single Tier 1 Innate, you need 7 total SP in the weapon (4 for the weapon combos to unlock the innate, and 3 for the Innate itself). To max out a single Tier 2 Innate, you need to spend 11 total SP (4 for the weapon combos to unlock the Tier 1 Innate, 1 SP in a Tier 1 Innate to unlock the Tier 2 Innates, and 6 for the Tier 2 Innate itself). To max out a single Tier 1 Innate AND a single Tier 2 Innate in a weapon tree, you need 13 total SP.

    To really use the charts below well, keep in mind that if you are maxing out a Role's Tier 1 Innates you'll be spending SP in every weapon tree. That means you'll need 4 points at least in every weapon for a total of 44 SP to unlock every T1 Innate. Keep this number in mind.

    Acronym Key:
    Bo = Bow--------------------Atk Dmg = Critical Attack Damage
    Br = Brawling---------------Atk % = Critical Attack Chance
    DP = Dual Pistols---------Cun = Cunning
    DW = Dual Wield----------Def = Defense
    HB = Hand Blasters------Dom = Dominance
    MA = Martial Arts----------Heal % = Critical Heal Chance
    1H = One-Handed--------Heal Mag = Critical Heal Magnitude
    Ri = Rifle--------------------Mi = Might
    Sh = Shield-----------------Prec = Precision
    St = Staff--------------------Resto = Restoration
    2H = Two-Handed--------Vit = Vitalization

    INNATE CHART
    [IMG]

    SKILL POINT SPENDING CHART
    [IMG]

    TOTAL STAT INCREASE CHART
    [IMG]

    EXPLAINING THE GRAPHS
    The graphs, as you'll notice, are color coded. These represent the different Roles the innates are (at least were) meant for. Red for Damage, Green for Controller, Blue for Tank, and Yellow for Healer.

    The first graph shows exactly which innates each weapon possesses, labeled just as T1 and T2 for a quick idea.

    The second graph shows how many maximum SP is required to max out the innate. Keep in mind, this number is just the innate, nothing else. That means that if you want to find out the SP required to get all the Damage innates, then add the 44 SP required to unlock them all (4 SP per weapon to unlock its innate tiers).

    The third graph shows the amount of stat increases by maxing out the innate. You'll also notice that the second to bottom line says "Innates from Combos". These reflect the total stat increases you'll receive not including the innates, so if you were to just put 4 SP in every weapon to unlock the Tier 1 Innates (i.e. 44 SP) these are the stats you'd see

    NOTE: Don't have the Shield weapon? Then any calculation made below, just subtract 4 for the weapon combos, and 3 for every Tier 1 Innate. Subtract an additional 6 for every Tier 2 Innate.

    DUAL SPECS
    If it takes 7 SP to max out a single Tier 1 Innate (we'll assume it's for your Support Role), then to Dual Spec into [say, Damage?] it would take an additional 3 SP to fill out that innate as well, bringing the total SP required in a weapon to 10. Across all 11 weapons, it would then take 77 SP to max out a Role, and 110 to Dual Spec. That's just if you stick to Tier 1 Innates. In any case, 77/110 is a good rule of thumb for SP goals.

    TIER 2 INNATES
    While offering even more specialization into your Role, these have far less "per point" increases to your stats, meaning it requires more SP to get a similar amount of reward from them as you would a Tier 1 Innate. However, as you can see from the chart, some stats can effectively be doubled; it just takes a LOT of extra SP. Specializing into the Tier 2 Innates also has an exponential impact on your ability to Dual Spec, and by that I mean your 1 extra SP will get you more stats from the "Other Role" than it would for your "Main Role". As you'll see in the build calculations below, the cost of Tier 2 Innates can get pretty outrageous.

    BY DESIGN vs. IN PRACTICE
    While the Tier 1 Innates are separated by Roles, they innates themselves may not be ideal for most Roles or builds. For example, Tanks make heavy use of both Dominance and Restoration, and Controllers don't make too much use of Dominance. So while most Damage and Healers adhere pretty close to the 77 rule to max them out, Tanks and Controllers might find they need more, or even less, SP to max out everything they want.

    Example Builds and Benchmarks:
    The following numbers are total amount of SP needed to REACH and MAX all the innates for a specific combination of attribute. Again, these calculations include Shield. I realize that a lot of the "(Max)" values are impossible to reach right now, but they're included if you want to see what it would take to get them anyway :)

    DPS
    - Might: 21 SP (T1) or 76 SP (Max)
    -Precision: 7 SP (T1) or 73 SP (Max)
    - Might + Precision: 28 SP (T1) or 129 SP (Max)
    - Crit % + Crit Dmg: 49 SP
    - Might + Crit % + Crit Dmg: 70 SP (T1) or 105 SP (Max)
    - Prec + Crit % + Crit Dmg: 56 SP (T1) or 107 SP (Max)
    - All Red Innates: 77 SP (T1) or 143 SP (Max)
    - All Red Innates + Health: 95 SP (T1) or 191 SP (Max)
    - All Red Innates + Power: 143 SP (T1+Power) or 209 SP (Max)

    Controller
    - Vitalization: 28 SP (T1) or 83 SP (Max)
    - Vitalization + Cunning: 49 SP (T1) or 94 SP (Max)
    - All Green Innates: 77 SP (T1) or 137 SP (Max)
    - All Green Innates + Might: 86 SP (T1) or 176 SP (Max)
    - All Green Innates + Prec: 80 SP (T1) or 176 SP (Max)
    - Vit + Cun + All Red Innates: 98 SP (T1) or 194 SP (Max)
    - Vit + Cun + DPS Crits + Prec: 85 SP (T1) or 158 SP (Max)
    - All Green + All Red: 110 SP (T1) or 236 SP (Max)

    Healer
    - Restoration: 28 SP (T1) or 94 SP (Max)
    - Resto + Crit %: 49 SP (T1) or 111 SP (Max)
    - Resto + Crit Mag: 56 SP (T1) or 113 SP (Max)
    - All Yellow Innates: 77 SP (T1) or 119 SP (Max)
    - All Yellow Innates + Health: 95 SP (T1) or 167 SP (Max)
    - All Yellow Innates + Dom: 89 SP (T1) or 161 SP (Max)
    - All Yellow + Might: 86 SP (T1) or 158 SP (Max)
    - All Yellow + DPS Crits: 98 SP (T1) or 140 SP (Max)
    - All Yellow + All Red: 110 SP (T1) or 218 SP (Max)
    - All Yellow + Power: 143 SP (T1+Power) or 185 SP (Max)

    Tank
    - Health: 42 SP (T1) or 97 SP (Max)
    - Defense: 35 SP
    - All Blue Innates: 77 SP (T1) or 107 SP (Max)
    - Defense + Dominance: 55 SP (T1) or 105 SP (Max)
    - Health + Dominance: 62 SP (T1) or 137 SP (Max)
    - Health + Restoration: 66 SP (T1) or 148 SP (Max)
    - All Blue + Dominance: 89 SP (T1) or 149 SP (Max)
    - Defense + Dominance + Restoration: 71 SP (T1) or 158 SP (Max)
    - Health + Dominance + Restoration: 82 SP (T1) or 189 SP (Max)
    - All Blue + Resto + Dom: 101 SP (T1) or 203 SP (Max)
    - All Blue + All Red: 110 SP (T1) or 208 SP (Max)
    - All Blue + All Yellow: 110 SP (T1) or 182 SP (Max)
    - Health + Dominance + All Yellow: 107 SP (T1) or 209 SP (Max)
    - All Blue + All Red + Resto + Dom: 134 SP (T1) or 302 SP (Max)
    - All Blue + All Yellow + Dominance: 122 SP (T1) or 224 SP (Max)
    - All Blue + All Yellow + All Red: 143 SP (T1) or 281 SP (Max)
    - All Blue + All Yellow + All Red + Dom: 155 SP (T1) or 323 SP (Max)
    • Like x 37
  2. Rahiel Active Member

    A most excellent resource!

    Minor error: Hand Blasters have Health, not Vitalization.
  3. Octantis Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the catch! I'll fix it up and redo some numbers if need be :)

    Thanks for the kind words.
  4. Joybird Active Member

    Great resource!
  5. Octantis Well-Known Member

    Should be fixed now. Please let me know if any other information is incorrect, including my totals.
  6. Rahiel Active Member

    Full health+dom should be 62 points, not 72. 6 trees with one passive (7x6 = 42) and two trees with both (10x2 = 20).
  7. Octantis Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I fixed it.

    I did my math as:
    (number of trees) x 4 + (number of innates) x 3

    I multiplied the innates in that equation by 4 instead of 3. Whoops :)
  8. EP Ice Well-Known Member

    Awesome guide!! Thanks for taking the time to create this!!
  9. Paradox Member

    Thank you!

    I have been meaning to put something similar together for awhile, and you saved me the trouble.
  10. ObsidianChill Well-Known Member

    it would be 77 for maxing the dps innantes just themselves, it appears your missing the shield x7 in your number.
  11. Octantis Well-Known Member

    Haha what can I say? This'll teach me to do math at 11 at night. So much for my Minor in Mathematics from a 4-yeah University ...

    Thanks, though. I appreciate all the people taking the time to go over my numbers and letting me know my errors :)

    EDIT: Fixed all "Max DPS" totals to reflect the addition of Precision.
  12. xXxEagle EyexXx New Member

    Great post but I think you should make another list for controllers who cares about dom also being a must have.
  13. Rahiel Active Member

    Here you go:
    Dom: 28 SP
    Dom + Vit: 56 SP
    Dom + Cunning: 49 SP
    Dom + Vit + Cunning: 77 SP
    Dom + Vit + Cunning + Crit Chance & Mag: 101 SP
    Dom + Vit + Cunning + Max DPS: 110 SP
    Dom + Vit + Cunning + Health: 95 SP
    Dom + Vit + Cunning + Max DPS + Health: 128 SP

    (Looks like the 120 SP listed for Max Troll + Max DPS + Health should actually be 116)
  14. Rahiel Active Member

    Also, for ease of calculating any other groupings not yet listed, it may be worth talking for a moment about how the weapon trees are organized.

    There are eleven weapon skill trees. Each has four passives:
    - One DPS passive (3 crit chance, 4 crit magnitude, 3 might, 1 precision)
    - One healer passive (3 crit chance, 4 crit magnitude, 4 restoration)
    - One tank passive (5 defense, 6 health)
    - One controller passive (4 dom, 4 vit, 3 cunning)

    Going to the bottom of a skill tree and taking one passive requires 7 skill points. So to get all the DPS passives, you have to do that in all 11 trees, requiring 11x7 = 77 SP. Same if you want all the healer passives, or all the tank passives (not including dom), or all the troller passives (including dom). From there, you're already at the bottom of every skill tree, so further passives can be added directly with no further prerequisites. Max DPS plus all six Health bonuses is 77 + 3x6 = 95 SP. Getting all the healer passives and all of the DPS passives means you're spending ten points in every tree, for 11x10 = 110 SP. Et cetera.

    So although it's technically a whole lot of single-digit addition, the structure of it can simplify the math a lot in many cases.
  15. Octantis Well-Known Member

    That's deinitely one way to do the math. I've always just like small and simple equations, though I did just use your method a few times. My wife and I have different math styles as well and it drives her nuts. Thanks for the error catches and the number crunching on Dominance :)
  16. OMAAR Well-Known Member

    If it's not too much of a trouble, can you also state the maximum stat obtained through how many skill points.
    Ex. 3 skill points for 30 precision.

    It would help a lot.
  17. Octantis Well-Known Member

    Sure will :)

    EDIT: uploaded a new one (kind of even grouped them by Role, too). It's not 11 at night so hopefully my math is better in the mornings, lol
    • Like x 1
  18. dWI Active Member

    its nice to see this here but. anyone who actually buys the health innates has room for improvement in my book even if they have 161 SP. if i had that many, id get combos for a unique weapon type. why? because its deceptive and unexpected. people are only now starting to look at rifles as a viable weapon type due to the rise of two-face in legends pvp. it still hasnt made its way to non iconic pvp. but if your looking for a unique weapon type, try out rifles. for my first month back in DCUO, i hated seeing weapon type: rifles, when i logged in. im okay with it now. respec weapon type tokens are pointless, which is common knowledge.
  19. Octantis Well-Known Member

    I will definitely agree that 270 health will probably not keep you from dying if you melee a boss while he does a "skull"'attack. I, too, would probably pick up weapon combos instead. But I threw them into the various builds in case the people that do want the Health would like to know. Besides, Health is probably a better use of Skill Points than Vitalization is for a DPS or a Healer. Then again, maybe not. Who am I to judge? I just post the numbers :D
  20. Lelouch Well-Known Member

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