Falsely banned for hacking

Discussion in 'Account Related Support' started by Bizaro, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. Bizaro Journeyman

    I returned to playing Everquest in October of 2012. I have spent countless hours in that time to get my character to raid level standards. I have spent money with station cash (hundreds of dollars) and when I logged on this morning I was informed my account had been banned.

    Luckily, it is only a one week ban. I am very concerned that this may happen again and I could lose my account forever. I have very little knowledge about this and am looking for anyones experience in these situations.

    I am very, very, scared. I know I do not hack. I understand they do not. With the knowledge I have do I really want to risk dumping hours upon hours of days and days of my life knowing this could happen again and be permanent? I have a lot to think about this next week. Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

    My Basic info:
    One account (not boxing)
    Use GINA, maps from mapfiend.net, and UI drakkah (makes EQ look like EQ2).
    Recent activity.

    Group missions and raiding T1/T2/TOV (ROF).

    Single mission in Sarith (repeating over and over for AUG drop)

    Camping named in Valley for the same aug.

    I leave my account logged in almost all the time. Almost always fall asleep with my character in the GGH.

    The current petition I have open they are not giving me any information. The most I have gotten is a link to the rules and a message saying I was exploiting or using 3rd party software to gain an advantage in the game.

    I am very suspicious about someone I saw in-game last night before i entered a group mission. It is my old guild leader whom boxes 9 accounts and knows everything there is to know about everquest good and bad. It is possible he hacks, I do not know. He is very resentful towards me at the moment. I really hope they the everquest team does more than just suspend someone after being reported, actually follow up and confirm the hacking.
  2. Bizaro Journeyman

    I would like to add I am VERY happy that SOE does take action against hackers. It obviously is not a perfect system and seems to rely more on personal judgement of a GM than anything. I am just guessing here. It bothers me that I pay a subscription fee, making me a member. Yet, when I call I cannot get anywhere with anyone and the same thing with my petition in game.

    Was I naive for beliving that I would have been unbanned quickly? I thought since I know I am not guilty that it would be easy for them to find and evidence and realize their mistake. I just would like to play, I am detoxing here.
  3. Tegila Augur

    idk teh details of gina on if htey could be seeingtaht as somethign bad

    hwoever ive seen people falseley banend for being near soemone taht was hacking at the time, turning in a quest at same time as a hacker group was etc. taht said, perhaps you were using a game exploit (rather than a 3rd party program) that you were not aware was an exploit. exploits pop in unnoticed by soe then they rush to fix them but in the meantime they note everyone making use of them, intentionally or not, and may take action. also be wary of yoru gourp mates that perhaps one of them was, and all you have to do is in some way benefit from tehir hacking, to get penalized as well, knowingly or not.
  4. Bizaro Journeyman

    Thank you very much for your input, Tegila. This is very useful information. It also disturbs me further. I now have to be cautious about grouping with new people? How am I supposed to know if someone is hacking? I am not a moron and can use common sense, and would report if if I saw. I have no way to monitor peoples software like, I would think SOE, does. This is a sad day for MMORPG's everywhere. Grouping with new people is a lot of the fun.
  5. Gherig Augur

    GINA is a Audio Trigger asset, as far as I can see it goes nothing but provide you with audio triggers for use ingame.

    As for getting snagged into the net while grouped with someone using *Q* or some other nefarious software, it happens, alot. Sadly the only way to avoid it is to never group outside your very close friends and even then you never know if one of them uses it also. The various software out there that allows for "hacking" has made it a game of russian roulette joining random groups. Not worth risking decade + old accounts over.
  6. UnnamedPlayer Journeyman

    Do you share your account with anyone? Does anyone else know your login information?
  7. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    Given what you have said, the initial reply to your petition combined with past descriptions that others have given for when the auto detection software kicks in makes me think that that you were not banned for 3rd party app or script use but instead for some exploit. This could involve some people reporting you; but it is standard for GMs to not do anything until after they start following you and see you doing it.

    It's been a while since I did Rebel Assult, you might think about how you do the task and if there might be any way you are doing things that might be deemed an exploit. Same goes for when you're farming the mob in Valley; I doubt it is either of these but it doesn't hurt to stop and think about it.

    If it is anything my bet would be on the Grouping/Raiding in RoF. Is there any tasks/missions that you have done multiple times a certain way that made it extremely easy? Or is there any task/mission which someone helped you and told you do something a certain way that you thought was weird? Anyone else in your guild get banned? Might compare notes with them if you two group together or did anything with the same person. Might give you an idea of what it was so you can avoid it in the future.

    The whole "cannot be lifted early thing" is rather funny, since there are people who actually do cheat get permanently banned and eventually get the account back. More of what it is in your case is that by the time you find someone with the authority to do it and willingness to actually thoroughly go thru your history and the offending incident in detail, the suspension will be up.

    Honestly, most people who are going to be hacking are not going to be in a PUG. I also disagree with Gherig that it happens a lot that a person in a group with someone who is hacking gets caught in the net; the people who are hacking or using scripts get caught by the auto-detect programs more times than anything. The only time you're likely to get "caught in the net" is when the group is doing something that is questionable and might be an exploit.
  8. Bizaro Journeyman

    I was thinking about this as well. In rebel assault I pull the rebel NPC's to my NPC's that are given to me for the mission. Such as, Commander Marrien Kavus'. These NPC's follow me throughout the mission and can't see this as an exploit.

    In Valley of Lunyan if I get in over my head I would have to run out of the tunnels and then zone into Sarith if my fade was down from pulling. Doing this would cause the mobs to follow me out of the tunnels. The first time the mobs never returned and I couldn't figure out what happend. I finally realized their pathing bugged and they got stuck in front of the tunnels, and in another tunnel heading back. I would then aggro and fade the aggro so they go to their normal spot or kill them there. I do not see how this is an exploit as it gave me no advantage.

    If the only solution to this problem is not group with anyone, only group with people you know, or make your own little army and play by yourself... none of this is appealing to me and NOT the reason I returned to everquest. I play an MMORPG to get lost in a different world, meet new people, etc... There misguided attempts to catch hackers seems to ruin gameplay, for me.
  9. duo13 Elder

    like 90% of this game people are giving out there Acct info and thinking nothing will happen
  10. huadmer Lorekeeper

    Do you share your account with anyone, if so there is your problem.

    If not then..

    You can feel safe to group with anyone. If you use common sense, have understanding of class abilities and game mechanics.
    If someone you group with is using scripts or hacks (like warping or tracking named spawns across zones, just to name a few) leave the group and petition them. If they are doing things which seem odd to you, ask them how they are doing it, google it, and make a decision if it seems reasonable.

    You did make a statement about your guild leader possibly using exploits and/or hacks. If you profited off his actions, then you can be found guilty of his actions, even though you yourself didn't actually use these exploits or hacks. Claiming ignorance of actions that are obviously wrong doings and then profiting off of such actions can lead to bans. Claiming ignorance is not a very good defense in such cases.

    Anyway, good luck and do not be fearful of who you group with but do not be oblivious either.
  11. Bizaro Journeyman

    Thanks for the input. My account was made on 10-19-2012. No one that I know of has access to my account. I am not fully aware of every single game mechanic and learn new things everyday....My ex guild leader told me he used program that let him put multiple hotbars for all his toons on one character, I do not know if this legal or not. I was told it is, legal... I don't think it should be, personaly. He was never warping around or anything that obvious, just playing a lot of toons, more than I can handle at once(9). SIDE NOTE: My guild leader is still online, meaning he was not banned. So I do not see me profiting from him as the reason.

    I have never grouped with anyone doing anything like this. The only people I have grouped with and or been suspicious of hacking are just people playing 4+ toons at once. For me to judge them and label them a hacker for being able to move and click a mouse faster than me is not FAIR.

    I play a warrior. I do not box. A warrior is VERY INEFFICIENT at soloing or even duoing with a merc. Even with max offensive AA's our dps is AWFUL. No warrior in their right mind would try to solo to level cap. I basically leveled from 80-95 in pick up groups in feerott, hot, argath, vallley of lunyan, cob, etc... When RoF came out I leveled with pick up groups in all the new zones. I was concerned with one thing, expeirence. Now if I get in a group with someone I just met and they're just killing normally but at the same time are running some hack but everything seems Kosher, how can I possibly get held responsible?

    Also, being suspicious of someone hacking and knowing they're hacking are two different things. Just like in real life, if I start to hang out with you and you're doing shady activities I am out. Same thing with everquest. Now if someone is casting spells they shouldn't or is just being plane sneaky, I am not set up to monitor everyone NOR should I be expected to. I fully understand about a community policing itself, but why ban innocent bystanders?

    Another thing that bothers me... If I am a manipulating hacker WHY am I not PERMABANNED? Are you telling me hackers out there are only getting one week suspensions.. This doesn't seem like much of a threat or punishment for hackers.

    I thought the everquest client scanned your computer in the background for malware or scripts or hacking software, whatever it is... Am I wrong here?
  12. yaddab Augur

    Not your computer no, but they do run some super secret scripts and such to try and detect people using 3rd party hacking programs, exploits etc etc. It seems unjust to me that they don't tell you WHY exactly you have been suspended, but I can also see the reason for that since if they tell you that then the real cheaters will get a handle on what SOE are doing to fight them.

    You known it is entirely possible that what ever SOE are doing has thrown up a false positive, but as has been said earlier, by the time you sort that out your suspension will be up. I would could your appeal up though (politely, as I am sure you are) since it would be better if there was not a suspension record on your account in case something happens in the future.

    There is another thread running here, with someone else suspended for broadcasting raids on twitchtv- extremely unlikely, so I woulds recon there is another reason there also.

    The last time there was a spate of unfair suspensions it did turn out that false positives were being thrown up - maybe the same thing is happening again.

    Hope you get it sorted.
  13. huadmer Lorekeeper

    Good to hear. I play six characters( 6box), use ISboxer, programmable keyboards/mouse, and enjoy boxing.

    Hence the word I used "obvious". Also I never implied that you did profit or was even involved in action.

    If I was banned for no fault or wrong doing I would call someone who can fix the problem and keep calling till it was remedied. (Customer Service and if no help supervisor)

    Can always take your business else where, hell I would if no one would fix the injustice.
  14. Bizaro Journeyman

    I have spent hours on the phone yesterday and have already called twice today. I ask to speak to a supervisor and am told several times nobody in the office has the power to do anything. It's all done by the online crew. I was SHOCKED. For a company that sells items in the S.C. store basicaly like a mini-amazon and has a customer service number for account problems, yet nobody in the office has the power or knowledge to help. I think the offices are based in India or something(/joking- but you never know).
    I am beyond pulling my hair out and breaking things.
    If I can't get this fixed I truly don't know if there is a reason to continue playing. I would spend a minimum of five hours a day online until March. Then I would spend a minimum of 30 hrs a week online, 20 alone is scheduled raids. All this time and effort knowing that if a mistake like this happens again all my hard work, REAL LIFE USD$ American dollars could, well, be basically STOLEN I don't know any other word to use for that situation

    I got a PM from someone saying they were going to look into it. I am pretty much powerless to do anything but have faith in the fact that the truth will come out. I sure as hell am not going to give up, though. I will keep calling, petitioning, checking my forum posts, till I find the right person to help me. I am crossing my fingers that just happened. I will keep this forum up to date as well for anyone curious of the outcome.

    I was thinking.. Is there anything hacks do to your computer that giving someone access to my P.C. would allow them to know. GINA requires I keep /log on. Could sending someone these files prove me innocent? I would happily do that in a heartbeat!
  15. Starlanae Lorekeeper

    Don't give up on your toon that you invested so much time into. If you are innocent then you really should have nothing to worry about. I am not sure what this GINA program is, something to do with audio triggers or something. Seems to me that it is not something that Sony has put into EQ so it is in fact a third party program. Any automated detection from sony can be picking up on the use of this program so really you have to think about whether this program is worth losing you account over. As I am sure there are many people that use it and claim it as safe, it may just mean that other just havn't been flagged for using it and is only a matter of time for them. Any third party programs go against the EULA....period. It makes no difference if it creates unfair advantage for you in the game over others or not. It is a third party program run outside of EQ, and runs off of EQ. Just operate on the safe side, ditch the program, use the audio trigger program EQ has. If your guild is requiring you to use this program for raiding and such then you may need to enlighten them of your situation or find another guild til they change their policy.

    The Devs are hard working joes just like we are and don't get nearly enough credit for what they do right for us and the game we love. They are not unreasonable and are not out to target any one person for no reason. Even after your suspension is lifted, contact them and find out if there is anymore information about your situation. Your account will now be soul-marked because of the incident and they will be watching your activities, so you might as well work with them instead of against them or fearing them. Contact Sony and volunteer any and all information from your account activities and ask them to watch your gameplay activities so you can work this out and find the problem. They are busy, but will appreciate your candor in the matter and may be able to help you re-establish your integrity in the game. Of course this is assuming you weren't actually hacking the game, but if you weren't then you need to take steps to assist them in proving your innocents.

    Most important thing to remember is this is just a game, so do what you need to do to to get back in and Have Some Fun!
    huadmer likes this.
  16. Piestro Augur

    Put in a petition, and make sure to keep it open and respond to it when necessary. Individual cases can be reviewed, and overturned if there was a mistake.
    Elricvonclief and Starlanae like this.
  17. huadmer Lorekeeper

    I hope they fix your problem. I wonder if posting on their facebook would help. Shrug just a thought.
  18. yaddab Augur

    I don't use it but looks Like GINA just reads your log files like Gameparse. Nothing wrong with that.
    Starlanae likes this.
  19. Piestro Augur

    Either way I'm the person likely to see it. Persistence is the key if you are dealing with CS (for any company) and feel the wrong action has been taken. Just focus on talking to them until you get an understanding of what has happened.
    Elricvonclief and Starlanae like this.
  20. Starlanae Lorekeeper

    What part of "Third Party" don't you people understand, hehe. I don't know this program..but it abviously has to access EQ while you are playing the game even to just detect a running script. I don't know how the devs detect or what automation they have to flag stuff..but just saying..it is better to be on the safe side and ditch the program. You do not need it to play the game and if it is providing some service to you that makes the game easier for you or more enjoyable for you than others then it does in fact violate the EULA. If after all this is done and you can actually get a Dev to tell you that the program is ok to use with EQ then have at it. I can guarantee you that all you are going to get is a Dev saying "Third party software violates the EULA" and no other comment no matter how you ask the question. Many people use many different programs that can be considered "third party". Hell, I think Zam's item collector is even considered a third party program. Anyway, what do I know..just that you have to continue to investigate this with the aid of sony and personally I would not use a single program til I found out what is safe or is not safe because I too have invested a lot of time and effort in my account and wouldn't jeopardize it over something so unnecessary as a third party program.

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