Heroic stats?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Deckerd Smeckerd, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. Does anyone have a link to the information on how heroic stats improve our character or does anyone have that information?
  2. Blacksun Elder

    I've seen tables around somewhere. Try searching the archives of the old Veteran's Lounge forums. Here are some that I found quickly on Google.

    From Allakhazam:
    - Heroic Strength: Increases endurance pool, endurance regen, and the maximum amount of endurance regen a character can have. Also increases damage done by melee attacks and improves the bonus granted to armor class while using a shield. (10 Heroic STR increases each Melee Hit by 1 point)
    - Heroic Stamina: Increases hit point pool, hit point regen, and the maximum amount of hit point regen a character can have. Also increases endurance pool, endurance regen, and the maximum amount of endurance regen a character can have.
    - Heroic Agility: Increases endurance pool, endurance regen, and the maximum amount of endurance regen a character can have. Also increases the chance to dodge an attack, grants a bonus to defense skill, and reduces falling damage.
    - Heroic Dexterity: Increases endurance pool, endurance regen, and the maximum amount of endurance regen a character can have. Also increases damage done by ranged attacks, improves chance to successfully assassinate or headshot, and improves the chance to riposte, block, and parry incoming attacks.
    - Heroic Intelligence: Increases mana pool, mana regen, and the maximum amount of mana regen an int-based caster can have. It requires +25 heroic intel to gain a single point of +mana regeneration.
    - Heroic Wisdom: Increases mana pool, mana regen, and the maximum amount of mana regen a wis-based caster can have.
    - Heroic Charisma: Improves reaction rolls with some NPCs and increases the amount of faction you gain or lose when faction is adjusted.

    From safehouse (http://www.evilgamer.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3508)
    Heroic Str - This effect is supposed to increase your AC softcap and make you hit harder. The softcap increase is broken the last anyone has heard. The extra damage effect however works. It's a rather simple formula, H-Str/10 and that amount is added to each hit, damage modifiers however (crits, champion, etc) will not improve this damage.

    Heroic Sta - Adds HP. Each point is worth what looks to be 15 HP, in addition to this however there is the +1 from the stat cap which will add a few more HP and varies by class. SK's end up with just over 18 HP per point in the end, at level 80.

    Heroic Agi - Adds to Dodge, and supposedly Block (not shield block) fire rates and allows for the limit on fall damage before auto death to increase at an unknown rate. The formula on Dodge (and Block if that's true) is +.1% rate per point. The +1 Agi cap increase does very little however. While AC softcaps are determined by AGI, there's a 1/3 return softcap on AGI beginning at 200, and normal AGI itself hardcaps at 305 (235 real). Any increase to agility itself past this point, does absolutely nothing other than to increase your displayed (fake) AC by a rate of 18:1 and your displayed stats. Benefits come in bursts every 25 points.

    Heroic Dex - The boost is +.1% to Parry and Riposte rates (Block too most likely, but not shield block if agi isn't adding it), also the stat increase actually does something which is just above doing nothing. Your real dex stat is used as the base of determining your critical hit chance. It doesn't add a whole lot of additional dps in the grand scheme of things though, as the base is a very small portion of the overall chance. Each additional +1 normal dex is something on the order of a 0.0000000000023429% higher chance to crit per point. So as I said, it's better than doing nothing like an agility cap increase, but not by much. Benefits come in bursts every 25 points.

    Heroic Wis - If you use Wisdom for mana each point is worth 10 mana. In addition to this each point of Wis past 200 is worth 1/2 of the points below 200 and the formula for mana/point is a nice simple level/5. Which means each point of overcap gives you 7.5 mana at 75, 8 at 80, 8.5 at 85, and so on. You could also just think of it as level/10 at that point. So a grand total of 17.5, 18, 18.5, and so on mana per point depending on your level. It also adds to mana regen if you use Wisdom, 25:1 ratio. Does nothing if you're an Int caster or pure melee.

    Heroic Int - See above, swap all spots where I said Wis with Int. Swap the one spot where I said int with wis.

    Heroic Cha - Modifies faction both positive and negative. The effect this has on each faction is tied to the faction itself rather than to the mod. Currently it only affects SoF and later factions and the boost isn't much. Unlike most EQ math however having a 20% faction mod while you're getting 1 point of faction will actually give you 20% more faction rather than giving you 1 (1.2 truncated=1=no gain). I'm not entirely sure on how the coders accomplished this but I'm pretty sure it uses a random chance to give you an additional point of faction occasionally when the boost would simply truncate what you would normally have. SoF factions are boosted at a rate of 1% per 5 points, with a cap of I believe 100% (500 HCha). Since this is set by the faction however SOE can easily alter this to be either less or more on a particular faction, of course this also means people like me are going to have next to no chance of keeping track of it. SoD rates are unknown.


    From necrotalk (http://www.necrotalk.com/showthread.php?t=10392):
    STR - This effect increases your AC softcap and make you hit harder. The softcap increase doesn't work right, or the effect is too weak to parse. The extra damage effect works. It's a rather simple formula, H_Str/10 and that amount is added to each hit, damage modifiers however (crits, champion, etc) will not improve this damage. Fairly useless to a necro.


    STA - Courtesy Morbidd: Here's the short version:
    1: 1 Heroic Sta is worth 4.375 + 10hps. Period.
    So 5 HSta is worth [(4.375 * 5) + 50]=71.85hp. And 122 HSta is worth [(122 x 4.375) + 1220]=1753hp.

    2. This is altered further based on your natural durability AA and DoN AA which provide additional +% bonuses to HP and STA effects. Very crucial to a necro.

    AGI - Adds to your Dodge skill (overcap), and supposedly Block (not shield block) fire rates and allows for the limit on fall damage before auto death to increase at an unknown rate. The formula on Dodge (and Block if that's true) is +.1% rate per point. The +1 Agi cap increase does very little however. While AC softcaps are determined by AGI, there's a 1/3 return softcap on AGI beginning at 200, and normal AGI itself hardcaps at 305 (235 real). Any increase to agility itself past this point, does absolutely nothing other than to increase your displayed (fake) AC by a rate of 18:1 and your displayed stats. Very nice to have as a necro.

    DEX - Provides +.1% to Parry and Riposte rates (Block too most likely, but not shield block), also the stat increase actually does something which is just above doing nothing. Your real dex stat is used as the base of determining your critical hit chance. It doesn't add a whole lot of additional dps in the grand scheme of things though, as the base is a very small portion of the overall chance. Each additional +1 normal dex is something on the order of a 0.0000000000023429% higher chance to crit per point. So it's better than doing nothing like an agility cap increase, but not by much. Useless to a necro as we do not have the parry or riposte skills.

    WIS - If you use Wisdom for mana each point is worth 10 mana. In addition to this each point of Wis past 200 is worth 1/2 of the points below 200 and the formula for mana/point is a nice simple level/5. Which means each point of overcap gives you 7.5 mana at 75, 8 at 80, 8.5 at 85, and so on. You could also just think of it as level/10 at that point. So a grand total of 17.5, 18, 18.5, and so on mana per point depending on your level. It also adds to mana regen if you use Wisdom, 25:1 ratio. Does nothing if you're an Int caster or pure melee. Useless to a necro.

    INT - If you use INT for mana (and you do) each point is worth 10 mana. In addition to this each point of INT past 200 is worth 1/2 of the points below 200 and the formula for mana/point is a nice simple level/5. Which means each point of overcap gives you 7.5 mana at 75, 8 at 80, 8.5 at 85, and so on. You could also just think of it as level/10 at that point. So a grand total of 17.5, 18, 18.5, and so on mana per point depending on your level. It also adds over-cap innate mana regen if you use INT, granting 1 additional point of mana regen for every 25 heroic INT. This means if you have +24 hINT you get +0 mana regen; if you have +99 hINT you get +3 mana regen. Does nothing if you're an WIS caster or pure melee. Very handy to a necro.

    CHA - Modifies faction both positive and negative. The effect this has on each faction is tied to the faction itself rather than to the mod. Currently it only affects SoF and later factions and the boost isn't much. Unlike most EQ math however having a 20% faction mod while you're getting 1 point of faction will actually give you 20% more faction rather than giving you 1 (1.2 truncated=1=no gain). I'm not entirely sure on how the coders accomplished this but I'm pretty sure it uses a random chance to give you an additional point of faction occasionally when the boost would simply truncate what you would normally have. SoF factions are boosted at a rate of 1% per 5 points, with a cap of I believe 100% (500 HCha). Since this is set by the faction however SOE can easily alter this to be either less or more on a particular faction, of course this also means people like me are going to have next to no chance of keeping track of it. SoD rates are unknown. Sometimes handy to have as a necro.
  3. Talif Augur

  4. HCharisma improves NPC reaction rolls? What NPC rolls to determine reaction. I've never heard of this in eq. Sounds like something from D&D.
  5. Talif Augur

    It increases your faction hits. Just bad phrasing.
  6. Hatsee Augur

    Supposedly does, we were told it's useless by devs so I don't believe it ever really worked at all.
  7. Brogett Augur

    A lot of the time there are heroic mods and also the old raw stat mod, so the two get confused. Eg STA is IiRC 8.75 hp per sta before 255 on rog and 4.375 after. This gets modded by your AA choices (physical enchancement? Forget the name now. Plus DoN success AA) to something like 21% higher. On top of that the heroic part of hSTA then adds flat 10 hp per point - not modded by the AAs. All very messy!

    hSTR adds +1 damage per 10 hSTR at the end of the attack calc (so never modded by crits), but the normal STR part included also mods attack rating.

    hDEX adds +1 damage per 10 hDEX to range attacks only (used to be all hits, but fixed last year). Unlike hSTR this is added at the start of attack calc so it can be modded by discs, buffs (eg champion) and crits, but also can be negated by being too a hit and swallowed in the "min hit" boost by worn fero. Also dex (normal, also heroic) seemed to be around 120dex per 1% crit rate. I don't know how it varies by class, but don't take all figures above as gospel.
  8. Falos Augur

    The parses on the berserker forums for heroic strength seem to indicate it is almost fully uselesss, though to be honest All heroics have kinda become meh for melee types, heroic dex was *amazing* but pretty much nerfed to being just ok.
    As I understand it Heroic Dex in its current nerfed form though is still better than heroic strength (after i saw very long duration berserker parses with heroic str),
  9. Brogett Augur

    It's certainly not as powerful as people think, but I'm dubious of parses that don't also check the hit distribution to compare it against in-game mobs. Parse dummies have often hd very weak AC which makes attack look worthless.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  10. After the nerf, Heroic Dex only affects ranged damage and parry/block/riposte; the defensive bonuses are why classes go for it still.
  11. Falos Augur

    This is possible, melee dps classes arent my expertise in EQ, my core expertise is the mage class, I play hybrids and a priest a lot as well but I wouldnt consider myself an expert on those, so i mainly dont concern myself as much with melee oriented stats.
  12. Brogett Augur

    Not quite true - heroic dex is normal dex plus an heroic ability. The heroic part is the ranged damage, but the normal dex also boosts crit rates.

    In terms of DPS even pre-nerf we gained more via the crits than we did via the +damage part. My parses seem to indicate that on average a +1% improvement to crit gives a +1.3% improvement to average hit (this may change a bit under disc). It's probably higher for other classes, but rogues get a substantial amount of +dam on pierce via AAs so the high damage bonus reduces the relative power of crits.

    That, coupled with around 120dex == 1% crit, means we're somewhere around 1dex =~ 0.011% dps. On a 100k burn that means an extra +10 heroic dex is adding around 110dps. It's unlikely you'll be doing 11 hits a second (more like 5-6 for me as a rog) so the lost dps in the nerf wasn't really the bulk of hDex power. For sustained of course it's more even, probably closer to half +dam and half +crit.
  13. maverick Elder

    I have heard people say all the time that the heroic stat increase AAs are mostly useless, however I didn't want to believe it. I never actually took the time to look into it, this information is disheartening.
    Thank you for the copy and paste in this thread.
    I am gonna look up AC info too to see how much upping that does or doesn't do past a certain point.
    If that also does minimal-nothing.
  14. Abazzagorath Augur

    Heroic dex/agi for tanking.

    Heroic sta/wis for hp/mana fluffage.

    Cumulative effects of multiple stats for a few points of endurance and mana regen.

    Other than that, they are basically worthless.
  15. Talif Augur

    Those increase base stats, not Heroic. Quite different.
  16. maverick Elder

    That confuses me, what is the difference? Do they not all go to the same place?
  17. Talif Augur

    hSTATS have additional benefits that get added over what you get from just getting a base stat increase off of them. Things like the mana regen or dodge bonus or faction hit increase (assuming that bit is working, I've heard people saying both ways on faction).
  18. Yther Augur

    Stat boosts only help if you're not maxed stat. Check your stats tab on the inventory window to see. By 65, sometimes alot lower, everyone in the modern game should be maxed on most, if not all stats. Heroic Stats raise the cap and give the same amount to the stat and give extra benefits. Heroic stats are only available on gear and various tribute (personal, trophy, etc.). See http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/EQ:Stats for details on the caps of stats at various level and with various AAs.

    For example, if you're 60 level or lower, and have 255 Strength, then adding normal Str, like Str: 10 will do nothing for you, but if has heroic Str, like Str: 10+2 then your cap will raise 2, and you'll have 257 Strength.

    Yther Ore.

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