#1 Score Ranked Player on Woodman Talks about ESFs

Discussion in 'Vehicle Discussion' started by Houck, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. [IMG]
    *Disclaimer: I'm not posting to get "up-votes" or to show off. It's to show, I've been playing this for awhile and have a good idea of what I'm talking about. I've been playing in since just after tech test and all I do is fly.*

    Hello, My name is Houck. I'm currently ranked #1 on Woodman EU - BR 43. I have 4724 kills of which 2655 are with my mossie. Talk I want to talk about what the current problems are with ESFs and some of my opinions how solve them.

    The big issue
    The biggest problem which has been cried all across the forums, is the rocket pods. It's easy to see why, it rakes in the kills. Example: http://i.imgur.com/pEK9y.jpg Funny enough, I think the amount of rockets to kill is spot on and the blast radius is good. So I'll get straight to the point. It's the optics, both of them allow you to see ground way too easily. They cannot hide and they'll only died tired if there is no near by cover. Removing the optics, means the pilot has to have a better eye to spot the enemy.

    Kills Troops, Kill Tanks, Kill Libs, Kills... Everything.
    The biggest problem is rocketpods can kill pretty much everything. Attacking rear armor of main battle tanks will kill them within one clip. The rockets need a straight %50 nerf to armor that includes all ground and air vehicles. SOE could make a different version of the rocket pods that fires anti-armor rounds. Which would do 75% less dmg to inf, but 50% more dmg to tanks from the current rocketpods.

    These small changes
    Lets review:
    • Remove optics from aircraft or atleast rocket pods.
    • Nerf rocketpods against all vehicles, but add an anti-vehicle secondary.
    That's it. We must be careful how we do these nerfs, as anti-air is not terrible as it currently is. Let me explain.

    "Anti-Air is Useless"

    A big statement used by many is that the anti-air isn't strong enough. This isn't true, burster max are the strongest anti-air in the game. Add a good engineer and your good to go. 3 Burster MAX with engineer support will stop most attacks via air. Anything less will allow the pilots to sneak in for attacks.

    Skyguards and lock-on rockets are very good to scare off aircraft. It forces them to clear away and run. Some will claim that all these resources and man-power shouldn't be forced to take aircraft, but with the changes I suggest this should balance itself out better. The best way to counter air is to have more than one source of strong anti-air which is spread out. Which means engineers supporting MAXs should run away from the MAX when the aircraft come in and quickly run back after the aircraft's run. If they aircraft hovers they don't have enough firepower to kill the max before the max kills the ESF.

    Hit and run tactics is the strongest part of a ESF pilot and if you repair the dmg before they come back in, you stop them running recks. The problem is with skyguards and tanks in general is we can kill them in one run, which doesnt give them a chance.

    I'm going to stop here as I have a tendency to ramble. So, please discuss below on what you think of these changes as I'm looking to see the opinion of both pilots and the victim of these ESFs :) Thank you for read and have a good day.
    • Up x 15

    Agreed on everything Rockets still make one of the faction specific weapons completely pointless. As it is now, taking A2G nose guns is completely worthless compared to Rockets. With these changes it'de be more viable to take A2G nose gun with A2G Armor PIercing Rockets to be more well rounded but it's still a bit too well rounded perhaps.
  3. This is pretty much how I feel too. Rocket pods just need a little tweaking. The damage and blast radius against infantry is good but like you said it's the INFRARED/THERMAL OPTICS that makes it a killing machine. No infantry ever escapes the infrared/thermal optics.

    Playing without those optics means you actually have to search and look for movement and it gives infantry a chance to hide. Infrared needs to be removed or make it really close range so it puts you in direct danger of rockets from infantry.

    Also, I agree with you about the different types of rocket pods. There needs to be 2 or 3 different forms. 1 for Anti-Air (not good at ground vehicles/infantry), 1 for ground armor (not good for anti air/infantry), and 1 for infantry (not good for armor period). Rocket pods need a very specialized role instead of being pretty freaking good for everything.

    I've thought about this for a while and these are the same exact solutions that I came up with. Good job!
  4. The optics are just texture hacks. There is a reason why these are banned in first person shooters. Why SOE decided to include them in the game is beyond me. I can fly in my ESF at 175m+ high while holding down the afterburner and easily spot a full camo infantry with only his little head poking out from behind a rock for one reason: The infrared optics. They work during the day. They work during the night. They can never be countered.

    There are other ways aircraft can and should have to acquire targets.

    a) Friendly infiltrator shoots his sensor pellet revealing groups of enemies on the minimap.
    b) Friendly vehicle has radar detector on it.
    c) The aircraft itself has radar on it.
    d) Troops on the ground "spot" targets
    e) Simply use the zoom optics to spot targets by eye checking for movement, tracers/flashes from weapon fire.
    • Up x 1
  5. AA Rockets step on the toes of the intended purpose for AA Missles.
  6. Instead, call out to your teammates to get burster MAXs and fight against it.
  7. Oh that's great. So instead of tanks dying to rocketpods in the rear in 1 second they will instead die to rocketpods in 0.5 seconds to the rear and 1 second to the top and side armor too. Where do you guys come up with your great ideas?
  8. To build on your post and add my opinion.

    Nerf A2G rocket pods = Sure for the time being reduce their armor damage heavily 50% or so. However I disagree with your AP rocket idea completely as 50% extra damage to now would = dead every vehicle constantly.. Instead make it A2G AV missile that have to be locked on. So MBT's get a chance to use smoke, just like ESF's get to use flares. Once the A2G lock on AV missiles are in game further nerf rocketpods to do no damage vs armor. EX: You either pick anti infantry strafing HE pods. Or AV lock on missiles.

    Keep AA the same = Disagree completely on this one. The Dual bursters function at the moment because of the rendering issue. If the rendering issue wasn't around then AA maxes would probably get slaughtered or door camped. I think however that AA should become further specialized into roles.

    First off the straight travel path of current flak needs to be removed, they need to tighten the CoF on all flak and add shot speed and arc back in.

    From their they can adjust damage.

    The skyguard on the other hand needs to be able to heavily damage or kill an ESF. It should not just "deter". Not when you are giving up all ability to kill anything else and spending the exact same amount of resources to roll a skyguard as an ESF does
    • Up x 4
  9. It's a great idea but maybe the Rocket Pods AP needs to be the rockets that we have now but just less effective against infantry. Also, tanks do not die in 1 clip of rocket pods taken from the side/top/front. The damage taken from behind could be nerfed a little bit, maybe around 50% or so. But to say this is a bad idea is just wrong. It could use some tweaking but it's a good idea.
  10. With a 50% buff it would

    That would effect how much tanks take damage taken from ground as well

    It's a horrible idea.
  11. How exactly would nerfing damage from rocket pods specifically affect damage taken from the ground as well?
    Also, i edited my post to make it a bit clearer on what I was saying.
  12. What do you think about maneuverability penalties while having RPs equipped?
    Not severe, but noticeable. Reduce the top speed for example, etc.

    It could reduce the amount of high-speed drive-by's.
  13. In which file do you think the damage multiplier is located at for tank rear armor? The tank or the ESF?
  14. In the initial post the OP said AP rockets should do 50% more damage than current rockets.

    Current rockets do 70-80% vs top armor in one salvo. Hence why Tuco is calling bull.

    If you had them do 50% more than they do now vs armor then the situation would be even worse for armor for no apparent reason. 1 ESF could kill you from any angle in under a clip.
  15. The tank.
    And I bet it has different damage multipliers for different weapons too.
    And I bet the rocketpods have a file that contain parameters for damage output against certain types of targets too.

    I'm not agreeing with the damage output. I'm agreeing with his ideas about splitting up rocket pods into different types. We can have the SAME exact rocket pod damage that we have now, just split across different types. AP Rocketpods could do the same damage that current pods do against tanks but dont have as much splash damage and doesnt do well against infantry. HE Rocketpods could have the same damage output against infantry as current pods do but isnt so great against armor. There would be no general purpose rocketpods because that's what we're trying to avoid because we have them now.
    • Up x 1
  16. What're your thoughts on Phalanx Turrets? Skyguards would be more viable with the mentioned changes, but I'd like to hear something about base turrets.
  17. I think that AA and optics are closely tied together, along a bit with render distance.

    Looking for movement is all well and good if you can somehow determine you are close enough to actually see anyone on the ground. Additionally, engaging ground targets that are not a huge zerg (which is usually impossible to engage anyway) without optics will require you to hover in order to find them. Throw in any kind of lock on missile, enemy aircraft, or flak and you will likely spend even more time doing a whole lot of nothing while you now try to find targets AND avoid all of the things trying to kill you.

    The advantage of being in the air is a double edged sword. You can see almost everyone, almost everyone can see you.

    Aircraft are allowed to visually identify targets on the ground very quickly because if those targets on the ground are properly defended against aircraft all they have is a few seconds to identify and attack. This is not an exaggeration, even a basic base turret will SHRED an ESF if they are not moving or are too close.

    Engagements between infantry and Aircraft are very similar to infantry and tanks. If you get caught, you get caught. Tanks can also kill infantry and tanks effectively. So it's not like rocket pods are unmatched in versatility. There are plenty of guns that are viable against infantry and armor. Hell, the HA dumbfire rockets one-shot infantry all the time.

    It's possible that tanks shouldn't be able to be killed in less than one-clip from behind but everything else is fine, in my opinion. If an ESF has enough time to pass over your tank more than once (likely multiple times if you have any engineer support) then that tank was in a position it didn't deserve to keep in the first place.
  18. Bet ya there isn't
  19. It doesn't have to be such a big buff, just something that would allow us to kill them in one barrage from any angle, but makes the rockets pretty much useless vs inf. It's a trade, I'd take.
  20. I'm pretty sure that power of tank busting is supposed to belong to the Liberator, not the multi-role ESF.

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