AV Max Weapons are TERRIBLE

Discussion in 'MAX' started by RogueComet, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. AV MAX in planetside 1 almost exclusively meant anti-MAX. There just aren't enough MAXs around to call them that any more and AI MAXs are sufficient for killing them now. I found that TR AV are good against Lightnings, and not horrific against vanguards. They need lockdown tho, desperately.

    Reduce MAX timers, profit.
  2. HA + cover and an engine ammo drop is FAR superior to the pounder + ammo drop + cover. When I drive MBT I'm never really concerned about 2 or even 3 AV Max but 1 HA with an ammo drop or 2 HA's have me worried. Given that we PAY resources + cooldown for the AV MAX I have an expectation that it should be better than a HA. Given the low mobility, low damage of the MAX vs. vehicles I'd take the HA anytime.

    It's odd to me that the statement "an AV MAX should not go toe to toe with a MBT" is made when as an HA with seekers and an engine in my squad I'll totally go toe to toe with a MBT and expect to come out on top or at least force a retreat/repair of the MBT. I have no such expectation with the AV MAX. Why shouldn't you be able to take down an MBT with a MAX if you have equivalent circumstances?
  3. I've tested all factions AV maxes, and as for me:
    1. NC AV max is best , high dmg , high aoe radius , high projectile speed , it have much more opportunity to play right than other faction maxes. It's more rewarding for skilled players to use NC AV max weaps just in any situation that it's just absurd how supperior it is. It outperforms in any aspect of other factions gameplay mentioned below. Needs 2 strait shots to bring down any class.
    2. TR AV max is "good" for infantry supression... and tickelling other maxes and thats all ... It's just like Vanu Lasher with low velocity +slight more overall dmg. Needs like 30-40 shots to bring down enemy phalanx at range.Needs 4 strait shots to bring down any class (3 for infiltrator).
    3. Vanu AV max is only good at killing other maxes at mid range. But you still need like 20 shots to bring down enemy phalanx or 10 shots in a sunderers butt. But most of time VS AV MAX is used for clearing engy turrets and parked flashes at any distance. Needs 3 shots to bring down any class (2 for infiltrator).
    Even 1lvl engi tool outrapairX5 any dmg dealt.
    OVERALL , Dual Burster Setup was way better jack for all trades for supression and armor dmg before it was "fixed in 02 Update" than TR AV and Vanu AV weaps out now.

    P.S. IT's Supposed to be AV weapon! I should be able to eat atlest 1/4 esf's health , or 1/10 libs when hit ... since it's realy hard to even land a hit to moving target , but it merely do 1/20 dmg to esf and 1/50 to Libs..
  4. I'd love to see more upgraded AV weapons. Perhaps slow-firing Deci arms as common pool "high" AV, and perhaps something derived from our ESAV. Dual Lancer arms would replace Dual comet in terms of anti-MAX weaponry, but viable AV would have to wait.

    Maybe some kind of common pool AP gun may be the way forward, inspired by the Lightning's AP cannon. Low splash, optimal for taking on light armor.
  5. Pounders behave differently now (again). Most changes seem to be cosmetic (a much, much more noticeable smoke trail - makes you very easy to spot and messes up your targeting something fierce), but I think we need to test it again.
  6. per arm DPS
    Pounder 333
    Falcon 277
    Comet 282

    so when playing duelsy thats
    666 for the duel pounder
    554 for the duel falcon
    564 for duel comet

    Those numbers are superior to vanguards AP main canon dps.

    For refernce the base launcher has dps of 327 (1700 damage, 5.2 reload), the lockon has 288 if fired dumbfire and about 182 when fired after locking on (assuming i am right that it takes 3 seconds to lock on). Esentialy a duel AV max is about twice as good as a HA is at killing vehicles. though there are the issues of sustained damage vs burst damage.

    As a note, they all have the same splash radius, falcons do 250 splash, comets 200, and pounders 150 (though you can consider it 300 as they get two shots). Falcons hit for 750 direct, commets 550, and pounders 375 (again you can consider it 750 due to two shots). This gives falcons, comets and pounders 93, 103, and 133 indirect dps per armo respectively. Falcons have 80 m/s projectile speed and 1.5 gravity, comets 60 m/s projectile speed and 0 gravity, and pounders 70 m/s and 2 gravity.

    I will frequently outdamage an enemies repair tool with my duel falcon loadout, which means comets and pounders will as well.
    I haven't checked in a while but I've probably got about 400-500 kills with the Falcons. There are times I'll hit someone right on at about 50m (and you can see both projectiles explode on them) which is around the convergence of the Falcons and they'll escape and other times it'll kill them. I don't know if it requires some headshot damage or not for it to kill. I know at ~10m a dual shot will not kill an infantry - presumably one of the projectiles hits while one sails harmlessly by.

    The AOE radius may be decent but the damage it deals appears to be very low.

    Better than the TR AV, absolutely.

    Better than the VS AV? For me the jury it out on that one. Ironically, hitting Magriders with NC AV is a frustrating and largely futile exercise. You have to get the direction and range since they're affected by gravity. Since the VS AV is quite noticeable, they could probably visibly dodge those as well but are easier to hit distant targets.
  7. The real problem is that MAX weapons have no zoom. Why is that?

    No zoom = BS effective max range.
  8. I would request cutting reload speed for AV weapons by 50%, increasing the damage per shot by 100%, thus maintaining the same DPS but allowing greater effectiveness against vehicles and less against infantry. (Keep splash damage the same). The slower overall ROF makes it easier for any infantry to approach the MAX, but a direct hit with an anti-tank munition should kill a soldier. The better damage also make it easier to exchange fire with actual tanks, as you need to move out of cover half the number of times.
  9. The range limitation isn't zoom. Its incredibly slow projectile speed and awkward arcs. I feel that if I line up a shot at anything other than short/med range, then I need to pray that the enemy doesn't alter their course at all. Short range for magriders due to their ability to completely 180 their direction of travel in an instant.
    • Up x 1
  10. i can take your AV if you take my 2 HEGs...really wtf they are just so bad hitting target 20meter away? maybe if the driver is afk.
  11. The fact the Comets have a horrid CoF doesnt help them... imo we need heavy duty anti tank weaponry...
  12. I absolutely love my Comets, amazing at anti infantry, anti max, and yes anti tank. It's no one hit kill but it doesn't need to be to be good. Now those AI guns on the other hand really need their data fixed so Cosmos aren't the uber guns, and hell even after that maybe narrow the cof a bit. Oh also need Starfires back, to hell with Bursters I want to watch aircraft burn.
  13. I admit I have only read the title of this thread and nothing else.

    AV Weapons terrible bra ?? Dual Falcons kick *** G n like I be like ev3n killing infantry wit liek dem okz.

    but if you can get the devs to make them even better ^^ all for it
  14. Not sure where you're coming from. The comets are amazing at taking down vehicles. Due to the range you can spam them at stationary targets and force them to retreat or take down a deployed sunderer from a very far range. I think you're just using them wrong honestly.

    They also eat up lightnings. I'll often sneak up behind a lightning and unload for an easy kill. That and they kill infantry fast when you have the high ground like at amp stations.
  15. A major inherit issue to AV MAXes is that vehicles tend to be able to do a lot of damage to MAXes very quickly. The MAX in its current iteration is vulnerable to explosives, and unless your target is distracted or only carrying anti-vehicle weaponry then the enemy vehicle will have plenty of explosives to send your way.

    Heavies can duck into and out of cover. The MAX is too slow to do this.
  16. You need 5 falcon hits to the back of vanguard to kill it.
    With dual falcon that would be 2.5 shoots. It would be faster than HA for sure, but still I think falcon and other AV maxes need buff compared to HA that is do all be the best class.
  17. This could potentially fix the problem.

    The dps isn't the problem, it's that MAXes have to almost stay completely out of cover to deliver their payload.
    This is really bad when you're such a massive target.

    I'd actually go so far to go even further with reducing reload times and increasing damage.
    Getting hit with two shots from a MAX AV weapon needs to hurt a lot.
  18. you would at least expect a weapon that has no lock on would do a bit more damage in its main role than something that does

    i admit i have killed a few tanks with the comets but its painfully slow and in effective, if they arent meant to be AV then at least make them better at killing infantry as they are they are worthless currently
  19. That would be a straight buff to my falcons, and would actually improve their anti-infantry capabilities by a significant margin.

    I'd have high alpha power against vehicles/turrets.

    My ROF against infantry would be unchanged. Currently, I need to alpha strike my falcons and hope that both rounds hit to get a kill. With your proposed change, I would stagger fire the falcons. I would maintain the same ROF, but I'd only need to score a single hit against infantry for the kill.


    I'd rather see a projectile speed buff. I think an AV max should enjoy a greater effective range than a dumbfire HA, and a greater damage output than a lockon HA.

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