[Suggestion] Balancing Tank Main Guns based on the New Numbers

Discussion in 'Vehicle Discussion' started by Compass, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. What we can see: tanks appear to have equalized, with the Prowler up ahead, and the Vanguard still lagging behind a tad. We can't really buff Vanguard armor anymore without offsetting stock capability balance significantly.

    Observations:

    Railgun from anchor did not skew the KDR too much. This means that it is still a niche utility. Too few people are using them in actual combat to actually visibly affect the KDR in meaningful ways.

    Keep the anchor as is. It appears to be not at issue for now.

    To main guns:

    AP Prowler 1200 -> 1150. This makes it slightly easier for tanks to repair through, reducing overall DPS but keeps its TTK profile similar.

    HEAT Prowler 1100 -> 1000. 25% was far too much. Make HEAT act like pre-patch AP and it will be fine enough. Reduces DPS by 9% but TTKs remain relatively the same. Easier to repair through.

    HEAT Prowler Splash Damage 1000 -> 675. Self-explanatory.
    HE Prowler Splash Damage 1000 -> 750. Self-explanatory.

    HE Vanguard and HE Magrider Normalized
    HE Damage 1000 -> 1250
    HE Reload X.X -> 4.5s

    HE Lightning Kept the Same

    ---

    Discuss.
    • Up x 20
  2. This would put combined cannon/Vulcan max damage output lower than it was prior to GU2 (in which it increased by ~2% [HEAT] ).

    I could definitely see cannon damage being scaled back slightly, but I think it should be accompanied by an comparable increase to Vulcan base damage.
  3. I made a similar post a few days ago and it got shot down immediately.

    But nice to see a dedicated Prowler driver bring up the same idea.

    I agree. Damage buffs were a little too much. Prowler became good at killing infantry to becoming godly at killing infantry.

    I freaking hate those HE Prowler rounds.
    • Up x 3
  4. Direct hits went from instakill to instakill and splash is unchanged.

    The point is that now it is effective against tanks in addition to its anti infantry power.
    • Up x 1
  5. Nothing with Prowler effectiveness versus infantry changed unless you want to account for velocity increase of HEAT at a range of 100-200m, which is what, 0.1 seconds more running time and half a meter less vertical lead?

    If it was farmable pre-patch, it was not more farmable post patch.
    • Up x 3
  6. I have been thinking this one over as of late and was meaning to make a similar post -

    I agree with your suggested nerfs of AP and HEAT V. Armor.

    For splash damage (and BTW what value are we using for infantry HP, 1000 I assume?) I'm not sure I would like to see the damage nerfed but rather max/min damage radius reduced. Precise direct (max spash) hits should still IMHO 1 shot infantry.

    If what I am reading from you is correct you wold like max splash to take 2 hits? While I wouldn't QQ if I had to double tap to consistently get kills I feel it would take more away that what it would accomplish - I purposely take careful aim and really only go for OSOKs to conserve ammo, if I have to effectively double tap every target I would just hold down left click and be sloppy to get the same results - at that point it's just a 100% ammo tax to me and lowers the skill cap.

    Reducing splash radius however would effectively nerf the infantry farming abilities (for most players) and actually reward quality shooting.

    P.S. Vulcan still sucks. ^_^
  7. Qaz

    Some good ideas here. When balancing the HE capabilities, the prowler shouldn't be able to kill infantry with l4/5 flak in a single salvo, imo (the investment in flak needs to pay off!), and numbers should be adjusted accordingly. Is that what your numbers represent, or up to which flak level would they allow to kill infantry?
  8. The fact that it has a dual purpose and is good at both is my point.
  9. +1

    I'm to lazy to run the numbers myself right now (its 5 in the morning here...).If you say the TTKs stay almost the same I assume that Prowler vs Mag is the same and Prowler vs Van got longer?

    Splashdmg doesnt hit tanks does it? That was only Dalton/Zeph right?<_< If it doesnt hit tanks then the changes are ok. Else we might need to change some other things around to keep the MBT vs MBT K/D as is.

    The only thing I dont understand is your proposed reload time. I understand the need to balance out the OHK Ability of the new HE... but 4.5sec feels kinda long. Also you have to adjust them for every MBT... simply because they have different HEAT reload times. If you use the same reload time for all the HE guns the effectiveness for HEAT vs HE gets changed for the MBTs. Right now its (should be) the same for all the MBTs.

    On a side note.... am I the only one that thinks HEAT is way to good overall? Its not like 50% HE effectivness + 50% AP effectivness, its more like 80% HE effectiveness + 80% AP effectivness :/
  10. You are looking at it backwards - is HEAT "too good"? No.

    The real question is are the specialty ammos good enough at their intended roles, and more to the point bad enough at their opposite roles.
    • Up x 3
  11. Well thats an other way to look at it. In the end the only thing I want is to pull the 3 guns further apart. It would have the (kinda) same effect if you buff AP/HEAT at their role and leave HEAT as is, it will end with 50/50 effectivness. In the end its more a question of "wanting to buff" vs "wanting to nerf" for balancing.

    Taking Compass changes into account I would like it to see that they buffed AP vs Armor further (lower TTK, not higher velocity?). HE vs Armor on the other hand needs its dmg reduced hard.
  12. In my opinion I would say wait another week before making any changes because the graphs that higby posted showed overall balance with an ever so slight favor of Prowler vs. Vanguard. Overall I agree with your suggestions Compass, however I don't think the Splash damage should be reduced more on the HEAT. HEAT shells have a smaller blast radius, and I don't think that means the infantry within that splash should take less damage than if they were in the larger splash damage radius of an HE shell. Thoughts?
  13. Thats backwards. HEAT Shells produce a smaller blast because they have less explosives (if we want to keep it simple). HE shells have more explosive and thus produce a larger blast.

    Why would the smaller blast be deadlier?
    • Up x 1
  14. I actually came up with an interesting scenario with current gameplay where AP is worse than HE and to a point HEAT against tanks, that I actually participated in.

    HE Vanguard vs AP Prowler Anchored, Front to Front, trading shots.

    The AP Prowler tore up the Vanguard but could not kill the engineers behind it who were repairing it. The HE tinkled my Prowler, but decimated my engineers, killing them. IMO, HE needs to be reduced in effectiveness further against armor. HEAT is fine due to the 6m blast radius not being far enough to hit the rear of the vehicle from the front @_@

    Is it appropriate for 3 Engies + HE Tank to get ahead against 3 Engies + AP tank?
    • Up x 4
  15. I'm not saying the smaller blast would be deadlier, I'm saying that those caught within the blast of and HE or HEAT shell should take the same damage. If you're caught in a deadly explosion you're caught in a deadly explosion. Oh and yes Compass I agree with your HE proposal too, the question is by how much would reduce the effectiveness against armor by? 25%?
  16. Fully agree - I'm just meant that if HEAT is supposed to be the happy medium, Its easier (I think) to balance around it as a single static baseline, rather than have it be balanced around 2 other ammo types.

    That said AP needs to be buffed significantly - it is so awful at killing infantry (rightfully so) that it is a serious risk to use it and the pay off in AV damage is nowhere near good enough, and needs to be buffed.

    HE I think does its job well - but it does the opposite of its job *too* well and does not present any significant risk for it's use, and as such its anti armor numbers need to be slashed.
    • Up x 2
  17. I really hope you're not basing your new balance data on that chart higsby posted in general, its already been pointed out why that chart is meaningless in terms of balance in multiple posts in that thread.
  18. I been driving prowlers since release, and I agree with you all the way. +1
  19. I'm basing it off the fact that I've been playing in the Prowler for at least 90 hours.
    • Up x 1
  20. Seems appropriate to me. Those engineers are the deciding factor in that battle and the HE gun is great at taking out infantry.

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