Discussion in 'Vehicle Discussion' started by Phoebus, Nov 23, 2012.
Well you missed the point it seems
Why were those ESFs acting like bombers and not escorting a Libby? You do know this is a combined arms game, right? Fighters escort bombers so bombers can destroy ground targets. Really if you are being taken out by flak you either didn't pull out of combat fast enough or your chose to get shot down by engaging a losing battle. I also doubt that TTK for flak. Missiles? Maybe, but not flak.
That is true to be honest, with G2A launchers.
Other AA is bloody useless ATM though.
Well done, you missed the point.
People don't want to take up an entirely different style of play to solve something that shouldn't be a problem in the first place.
ESFs can be kitted for ground attack very easily, and they are way too effective at the job the liberator should be doing. This is the problem people have with them. We're saying they're supposed to be dogfighters that help a faction obtain air superiority in an area so that liberators and galaxies have an easier time moving in. The fact that they CAN use A2G weapons does not mean that this is fair or should not be fixed.
If I'm playing as a light assault do I expect to be able to take out air targets? No, it's not my job. The same is true with ESFs - should they be able to take out ground targets? No, because it is not their job.
Doesn't it say anything to you that the liberator is defenseless from above? - You know that ESF, about 500 meters away from the liberator, firing rocket pods at a spawn room and watching the kills mount up? Yeah, he's supposed to be covering that blind spot of the liberator.
1. Have you seen a Liberator? It is thousands of times more effective than ESFs at A2G assault. As a Liberator gunner you can rack up 100 certs in 30 minutes to an hour given that there is no anti-air.
2. Clearly the Devs did not intent the ESF to be locked into the role of A2A. If that were the case there would be no A2G weapons for the ESF available. An ESF with A2A missiles has the job of killing enemy air. An ESF with A2G rockets has the job of killing ground targets, but the Liberator is many more times effective at doing this.
And no, the liberator is not defenceless against enemy fighters. The tail-gun will kill an ESF before an ESF can kill you; if he is chasing. The CAS-Tankbuster will destroy any aircraft in a single clip if they fly in front.
Additionally, following your line of argument, why should the heavy be able to take a G2A role and a G2G role? Why should the heavy be able to fulfil multiple roles like the ESF?
Again, it's because each class and unit has multiple roles.
The Lightning can be anti-infantry, anti-air, anti-armour. The MBT can be anti-infantry, and anti-armour. The Sunderer can be anti-infantry, a troop transport, or a deployment zone. The Flash can be a quick scout, fast transport, or anti-infantry when upgraded with guns. The Liberator can be anti-infantry and anti-armour. The Galaxy can be anti-infantry, a troop-transport, and anti-air when upgraded.
One vehicle is not locked into one role. They all have multiple roles. The ESF is most similar to the Lightning in that it can fulfil three roles. It is meant to be the most versatile as Smed said "we want to make this game more soloable".
Actually no, I am on track. Maybe you can help me then, what exactly is the point I missed? Keep in mind, my vid is still loading....
I will focus my response to the Lightning as that was the only vehicle you talked about that could also be anti-air as well as its other roles. If, like the lightning, ESFs lose all their abilities to dogfight and kill air, as lightning lose all their ability to attack ground forces, I would have no issues with ESFs. Additionally the effectiveness of an ESF loaded for A2G should be as effective at killing armor as SG are effective at killing ESFs, if it takes multiple Skyguards to kill an ESF, it should take multiple A2G ESFs to kill a tank. On top of all this ESFs have the built in advantage of flight. That's kind of a big deal. This swiss-army-jet stuff flies in the face of the combined arms goal of the game.
Don't really need to respond because miniboomer hit all of the points above.
Spend some time in these vehicles before you walk around trying to swing a nerf bat at them. They are working as intended.
Only if the ESF is a complete idiot. Any skilled pilot has absolutely NOTHING to fear from a liberator tail gun.
Good post, have an upvote.
As an ESF pilot 100% of the time my BIGGEST fear is a liberator crew that knows what they're doing. They can shred me in no time at all.
Now... the typical lib pub group that grew thrown together and doesn't know what they're doing doesn't stand a chance.
Honestly, liberators have never been a major threat. Even back when the Shredder was as powerful as the Tank Buster and groups of people were using the liberator as an anti-air platform, it wasn't a threat. It's simple to stay in a liberators blind spot, where there's literally nothing they can do against you. It's fine though, that's the reason Liberators should have an escort if they don't want to risk a pilot picking them to pieces.
I agree with this.
A good lib pilot has no blind spot. "Oh look i'll just sit above him so he can't get me", I've been in dog fights with enough good lib pilots to know that doesn't work as planned most of the time. Oh look he flipped over now I've got two guns blasting me.. one that can kill me instantly damn near and another with enough punch I'd be an idiot to stay around. Any liberator pilot who "dives down so his back gunner can get you" or tries to out maneuver you is an idiot straight up. Roll it over and get up in the ESF's face.
You can't dumb down the game because people aren't very good at it yet. 95% of lib pilots are AWFUL right now.
As a full time pilot with a 5:1 K/D ratio, a good liberator pilot I'm trying to take out is much more dangerous than most things.
I'd love to see a video of a lib flipping on its back and hitting an ESF with the Dalton. I honestly dont think it could be done with anything approaching regularity.
Nobody said a Dalton.
What the Ripper? I thought the ripper sucked anyway cause they nerfed it. Who would waste their time flying a liberator without either a Zeph or Dalton?
There's nothing wrong with the shredder (obviously you need some clip upgrade because that's pathetic stock). It's great at taking out tanks / sundies / liberators / galaxies and yes... even ESFs in the right hands.
People think the only way to go is drop big bombs on areas. Hey, that's fine if you're intention is to kill as many infantry as possible. A couple zoom, a couple clip size and some ammo upgrades and it's more useful those giant slow bombs people seem to think are the be all end all.
A good ESF pilot will roll with the Lib pilot, he still has his blind spot, it's just moved. And yes, it's entirely possible to stay in his blind spot, even when he rotates, even when he hits his spacebar and starts pitching his aircraft down. That's if you even want to stay in his blind spot. Often times it's just as easy to kill them from range, using your mobility to avoid being hit, even if they're shooting at you. This is all as it should be. Liberators should be vulnerable to ESFs, it's what they're there for.
Also, K/D ratio is a pointless stat, especially for a pilot. Lets keep it out of the discussion. It just makes people sound arrogant.
Apparently people seem to forget what TWO double-busting MAX can do to a convoy of 3-4 ESFs. Leave ESFs alone, they're good as it is.
Yeah like there is NOTHING powerful to counter it. Double Burst MAX, Skyguards, G2A Lock on Rockets...Oh brother I laugh at how some entitled people want Rocket pods to hit as soft as marshmallows because they are dumb enough to go solo and not stick to a zerg.
They are ROCKETS for Pete's sake. Some of you whiners got the Rocket pods nerfed on Launch and who knows how many times in Beta. Stop whining and use proper tactics.
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