Discussion in 'Vehicle Discussion' started by Phoebus, Nov 23, 2012.
Main problem is rocket pods, everything else about the ESF and Anti Air I can live with.
Maybe the crew I run with is just really good, but we do this pretty consistently.
The Lib doesn't take well to flipping, but I've perfected the art of rotating it to face the belly at an attacking ESF. Shed some speed to draw them in close and my gunner can usually hit with the Dalton, even if it takes a few shots. If it's not working out we switch to the Walker and try to force them off at least.
The trick is to throw it sideways so your bottom faces back, using vertical thrust to maintain momentum. That gives the gunners a decent and fairly stable shot in a cone behind, above and below. Once you get the hang of it you can do it without shedding too much altitude and maintaining some sort of controlled direction. It looks dumb and it's quite bizarre, but it works. The Zephyr may make it even easier, haven't tried yet.
Never dive straight down, that's a death sentence. You need altitude for the manoeuvres required to effectively face your guns.
1vs1 we win 90% of the time. Multiple ESF's make it a bit trickier, but as a Lib you should be avoiding that situation or have an escort ready to ambush.
Overall I think Libs and ESF's are pretty balanced against each other. I think it might skew towards the ESF's when more pilots get rockets, but an upgrade to the Walker would balance it out again.
*if there's any interest, I do have some video.
...What did you just say?
Yeah, tickle them away after they unload their rocket pods so they can repair. Oh lord, the horror. They have XP coming and going. Why are those ESFs not escorting a Libby to destroy those ground target?
If an ESF dies to flak it is either because they failed to run away in time or chose to get shot down by going into an unwinnable fight. See, ESFs can choose what fights to go into, AA-flak can't fly around like that. Some of you whinny entitled flyboys want an ESF to be effective at killing everything and only fear other ESFs.
Wanna kill tanks and infantry from air? Get a Libby.
You seem like you love to play Solo. Solo AA does ****...get in a zerg and kill something and stop your moaping. Same with one ESF going in where there are 2-3 MAXES. He's done for. Same with Turrets and Skyguards. Learn the game or stop crying.
Right, I only do zergs. I only have a bit of time to play the game, and I am usually one of the few guys pulling AA-flak. It is a joke how easily ESFs can ignore, or better yet, attack AA-flak players. MAXs only seem as good as they are due to the render issues with them. They also have a thankless job that gets them no XP. I would go HA-AA like everyone and their mother, but I already put certs into AA-MAX and am rather stubborn about it. Turrets and SG go down faster then a prom date when a single rocket-ESF chooses to deal with them.
Also, solo rocket-ESFs should do $hit to ground, but we both know that's bull, so why can't a single AA take out an ESF?
Don't know about you but I'm constantly bringing down small aircrafts with the help of my other MAX buddy and skyguard bud. Especially when I get someone else on Lock-On-Rockets ...So much I feel dirty after doing that. I just don't understand the ESF>AA argument of some like you when i find it really easy to bring down aircraft. Granted, Liberators are harder to kill I give you that.
I am fine with not really being able to kill Liberators as ground, they should be the things putting the fear of god in ground, not some one person swiss-army-jet with rockets. I am sure you and your buddies are having an easier time then me with AA, mainly because you have coordination. If it takes multiple AA-flak to take down an ESF, it should take multiple rocket-ESF to take down a tank. Just seems fair to me.
Yeah, lock on rockets are part of the reason pilots are upset with ground forces not liking rocket pods. Honestly these need to be changed to be easier to dodge if changes are made to improve flak or nerf rocket pods. These really should be the deterrents that keep ESFs maneuvering and only really hitting ESFs flying straight or hovering.
I understand that they can be kitted for specific roles, but there's 2 problems with that. The first is that they acctually cannot be kitted for a specific role, they can just choose which weapons they want for their intended purpose. Chooseing a ground attack role yeilds NOTHING in your A2A capabilities. It only limits the weapons at your disposal. The second is that a ground attack esf completely defeats the pint of a lib right now. 3 esfs with pods can do more damage, and are MUCH harder to kill than a lib. Not to mention that an A2G build is actually very effective in an A2A role since the pods to significant damage to everything.
Comparing this game to RL is like comparing bullets and bows. They may have some similarities but are in a whole different world from one anotbeer. If we want to compare this game to rl then I want me some B1 and I will always choose the US because they will always dominate. Basically its a pintless discussion
Coming in piecemeal (bad tactic) vs. coming in all together (shock tactic).
Coming in all together (shock tactic):
Coming in piecemeal (no tactics):
Rocketpods and Liberators are so OP they can come in piecemeal and still win, don't need tactics with these OP aircraft.
As long as rocketpods and Lib weapons are overpowered we won't be seeing any cool looking coordinated stuff like this:
It would be complete overkill. I can only recall one time 3 reaver ESF's working together, they were on Esamir, one was leading 2 others followed, they were flying in a pattern back and forth between our TR warpgate and that vast flat area. I was driving a tank, one of them dived on my tank so I started moving around, the other 2 followed in formation. Looked cool. The first one insta-killed me in the rear, so the other 2 were pretty much overkill probably bored out of their skulls with the lead plane getting all the kills.
Now, that's 3 reavers. If rocketpods were reduced by 66% they still would have killed me in 5 seconds anyways with that efficient formation they were flying.
The way I see it, they totally should make rocket pods either Anti-Vehicle or Anti-Infantry.
Basically, either you get splash damage or you get to kill vehicles, you don't get to do both.
The weaponry is fine, the aircraft armor is what is too high.
For one, an ESF should always die when hit by an MBT main gun.
Above that, the flak weapons need a boost on range damage and accuracy.
If air can effectively kill ground units, but ground can also effectively take down air units, it will be fun and challenging.
Solo AA shouldn't have a chance to kill anything, but solo ESF should be able to **** everything faster than any and all other things in the game?
I give you the gold star SOE balancing badge.
The ESF can do anti-infantry, anti-air, and anti-armour at the same time.
Whether the devs want the game to appeal to the unintelligent masses coming in from games like CoD or not is irrelevant to me - in my opinion the ESF not being locked into the role of A2A is a bad thing and is only part of the game to prevent forcing people to use the liberator when they want to attack the ground from the air.
Notice it's only pilots who like the ESF being able to do everything and pretty much everybody else hates ESF flyboys as a result.
The majority of the playerbase hates ESFs. Therefore something is wrong with ESFs.
I've spent time in them. I was able to just hold my mouse button while aiming vaguely towards infantry with pods and things died.
It's like FPS for people with a mental age of four.
Your reply is kind of the point...
See, the problem is that you are completely ineffective at taking down an ESF, your MAX buddy is completely ineffective at taking down and ESF, your Skyguard buddy is completely ineffective at taking down an ESF, the random HA that has a default 4-5 lock-on AA rockets is completely ineffective at taking down an ESF. Together, as you clearly pointed out, you have a CHANCE of taking down that ESF, if the pilot doesn't dodge out, land and repair. Of which you've all together become completely ineffective.
In contrast, that 1 ESF can run 1 rocketpod pass and clear all of you out in that 1 fell swoop.
Your stats: you guys kill that 1 ESF of which cost an aerospace spawn and split next to nothing for XP.
ESF stats: ESF pilot kills all of you, of which cost a mechanized spawn and at least 1 max spawn and gets a ton of XP
That is the imbalance.
In addition; this completely disregards the fact that the ESF pilot was flying solo and you had to be in a "team" composition.
"The majority"? Please provide such proof. The devs have all the stats for kills per vehicle, player gameplay etc. If your comment had a n ounce of fact the devs would remove ESFs according to the factual stats.
I hate ESFs. Just my 1 cent. Something needs to change with the easymode air.
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