[Suggestion] ESF Balance

Discussion in 'Vehicle Discussion' started by Dethsturm, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. After today's patch, I feel that ESF balance is nowhere near what it should be. Previously, the Mosquito has the fastest cruise speed, the Scythe has the best agility and the Reaver had the highest BURST speed with its afterburner. All ESF HPs have been shown to be equal as well as TTK. Right now the Reaver has lost its ability to carry it's momentum after using afterburner, giving it a quick boost to about 350 then dropping back down to about 215-220 (with vert thrust) almost instantly.

    I understand that the Mosquito and the Scythe have had this rapid speed falloff since release. My idea to help maintain balance is to have a mass value assigned to the ESFs, Reaver being the heaviest (as stated) and Mosquito being the lightest (allowing for faster acceleration and deceleration). Then using this value to calculate an inertia value to the ESFs, which would dictate how quickly the falloff would be. Reavers get to keep their momentum, but so does everyone else to an extent based on their mass.
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  2. I agree completely and would add that the inertia effect should also play a part in determining turn radius. Namely that because the Mossy and Scythe can bleed velocity more quickly they are able to make tighter turns from full speed, where as the Reaver should "drift" into a turn as it can't negate its forward momentum as well. Round everything off by giving the Scythe a "roll rate" edge over the other two and call it a day. This way you have 3 ESF's that feel unique but also physically plausible. The Mossy becomes the best at cornering and accelerating out of turns giving it a slight edge in conventional dogfights, the Scythe becomes more elusive as it can change angles of attack more rapidly and the Reaver can keep its overall velocity up by combining forward and vertical thrust giving it an edge when it comes to catching up or running from opponents in a linear fashion.
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  3. This i can agree to.

    But before the patch, it was still unbalanced.
  4. What do you feel was unbalanced before and how would you suggest fixing it?
  5. That reavers had very little speed bleedoff compared to mossie and scythe, as in, the current where you instantly loose your boost is what mossie and scythe always had.
    And because of that aswell as having powerfull thrusters, Reavers could easily outrun A2A missiles, given you certed correctly, with racerframe.
    Not only that, due to its bleedoff, it's effective "cruising" speed was greater than the Mossie and the Scythe.
    Mossie was only faster in its speed if no afterburners were used. However, the reaver could maintain a higher speed, despite mossie supposedly beeing the fastest aircraft.
    Also the powerfull thrusters granted the Reaver a very good agility, especially for those who knows how to fly liberators.
    Using tilt + thrusters would grant you very sharp turns that would put you on par with mosquitos, aswell as providing very powerfull breaks.
    So that the reaver might have been the heaviest, thus has the most momentum, it would be almost nullified given the pilot is knowledgable on the reaver. So it weaknesses could be almost completely cancelled out if you knew how to fly it.

    However, if all ESF had the same / similar or the Bleedoff in speed that was suggested in this post. That would be much more balanced than how it was before this current patch. Giving more uniqueness between aircrafts. (Lighter aircraft, higher acceleration, higher speed-bleedoff.)
    This will make it so that Reaver, despite beeing the fastest, a mossie for example would be able to accelerate and catch up before the reaver reaches max speed. And if both were to fly example down a canyon, the reaver would be faster in foreward directions, while the mossie would catch up in turns and corners. So in a way, they both would have the same speed, given that there are enough straight directions and turns. Just to give a mental imagine.
    • Up x 1
  6. I know that was true in beta, but I've never been able to get it to hold 250+ for too long pre-patch. The AB uses about 20-30% of it's fuel as soon as you punch it, three booster taps (w/o tanks) and you are out of burner.

    I've seen Mosquitos outrun A2A missiles all the time with their burner, not sure if that requires an airframe.
  7. Honestly, the Reaver has always been overpowered. All the esf were the same, except the Reaver and it's inertia and 300kph top sustained speed. It's hard to take one in the face after playing with an advantage since early beta, and Im sorry for that. It's also unfortunate that the Reaver is the freaking NC esf cause well... we all know about NC and tears...

    It's balanced now. It wasn't balanced before. Everyone knew it accept for you NC... cause NC always think they're underbalanced no matter what they're gifted with, it's some kind of deranged group think.

    No... no one else could fly backwards as well as a Reaver.... No ... no one else could outrun every other esf like a Reaver... and no one could plummet faster to the deck like a Reaver... these weren't minor differences they were huge, and outside of the "REAVERS" benefits there are no other esf benefits.

    Sorry... it's true.

    I have no idea how any of you talk about the Sycthe's turn rate or the Mossies top speed without being completely embarassed of yourselves honestly. There wasn't one Reaver pilot or Mossie pilot worth an ounce who couldn't stay on 99% of his targets tails, that means turn rate and roll rate are meaningless. There hasn't ever been a Mossie that simply speed away sometimes outrunning missles like Reavers did... maybe you personally couldn't pull off this stuff, but the best of you know EXACTLY what Im talking about.

    No one with a clue uses a dog fighting frame... we all know it... everyone that has any clue, uses either the racer frame or the hover frame... How can they both be the "benefits" of the reaver simultaneously with every other stat being exactly the same, and yet things were balanced. They weren't it was yet another of a long series of crutches NC rely on and when they're taken away you all fall flat on your face. It's truly unfortunate and honestly, not your fault, but it doesn't make it fair for TR or VS either.

    just stop. I've held my tounge on this for too long.

    If you want your straight up advantages back, Im fine with it... However, quit deluding yourselves that it was fair.

    I honestly in my heart wish that all the esf were exactly the same, but that just happened and guess what...

    Still the Reaver has the best verticle thrust btw... so... quit asking for "BALANCE"

    YOU CANT HANDLE BALANCE
    • Up x 1
  8. I don't get the Reaver problem (OP, too fast). What's the use of it being fast in dogfights? You know you can't escape. So, commit. You'll probably outmaneuver it, force him to retreat or kill him.
  9. So what is the Reavers advantage now since it is 'balanced'? Armor and TTK is the same for all ESFs, its been proven over and over. Dive speed is capped around 250-260. Woohoo flying backwards, doesn't keep guns on target in most situations. Slowest ESF, Worst agility, the NC might as well fly a brick. Vertical thrusters help but not alot and nowhere near the magnitude they should. Nose down I hit 215 with Hover 1. This thread was actually asking for balance so that other ESFs could hold some of their speed like the reaver does based on their mass. Also I see mossies burn away from missiles all the time.
  10. The reaver is fine just owned the skies for hours this morning.
  11. Seeing as there's no point in really arguing on these forums with the other factions I tend to avoid it. But also seeing as SOE seems to directly decide their patches based on who's whining the most on here I feel I have to say something.
    The speed nerf on reaver was so unneeded it's not even funny. There is no way to get away from either of the other two ESFs now, and even before the patch it was a losing battle more than half the time because scythe is faster in every way but going straight down and mosquito just obviously faster in every way, and both so much more maneuverable. The only advantage reaver had was the ability to dive to the deck and hope to find some cover and with smart use of AB hopefully get away and avoid. Now it's impossible. The other two just leave me in my tracks even with full racer frame. They can litereally do loop after loop and still keep up with me.
    You can barely pull off the reverse maneuver anymore because you gain next to no momentum from gravity going down. But somehow you lose like 30kph when going up. Doesn't make any damn sense. You should be able to get away by breaking a direction they're not expecting and AB, now they could mess up so bad and still be right on my ***.
    If things stay this way I'll definitely be changing empires.
  12. lol o man... gg!

  13. The whole point of a ESF is to be fast and hit & run
    The reaver is a slow brick, so it defeats its purpose.
    This needs to be fixed.
    PERIOD.
    NO arguing with that.


    And blabla NC tears ********. I played all faction and NC is BY FAR, the hardest to used. You need to be an above average player to be competent with NC guns on anything more than close range. While anybody that can hit the side of a wall can do decent with for example terrans guns.
    So dont give me the NC tears crap. NC just needs more skill to be played equally good as terran. And frankly, there are far more mediocre players than there are good ones...
  14. I like how this was a constructive thread dealing with current speed issues of all ESFs until VoidMagic got in here.
    • Up x 1
  15. Everyone thinks they are top notch pilots, shooting down a couple newbs.
    • Up x 1
  16. Just saw this thread and thought I might say this: It is confirmed that Reavers instant speed drop after using AB is a bug and so is racer airframe.
  17. except its not balanced. Its now the weakest, just like everything else the NC have. Everything about the thrust that was important is gone. It doesn't take more damage, and it doesn't do more damage, and its the slowest.

    The reaver after this patch, is a compete piece of ****.

    Maybe if they fix it i'll go back to my NC. As of now, i'm playing TR and VANU.

    Also, the best pilot (VS) on matheson uses dogfight airframe
  18. where was that stated..
  19. For the love of god source PLEASE
  20. Check reaver speed nerf thread. Lupurza stated in a live stream that both AB and momentum we unintended

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