[PSA] Further Investigation into 1/12 Reaver AB Changes, an Unexpected Change

Discussion in 'Vehicle Discussion' started by Spadar, Jan 12, 2013.

  1. I made another post earlier today looking at the basic acceleration and deceleration changes here.

    However by request of sdfasdfa I looked a little deeper into the changes.
    I unexpectedly found some other changes that were not announced.

    Some things to note before looking at this:
    1. ESFs were default
    2. AB Fuel tanks were not equipped
    3. I defined the AB cycle as starting from forward cruise speed in level flight at the moment AB initiates, and ending at the point when all ESFs in the comparison have returned to cruise speed. If you wish to look at it from a different perspective, it should be possible using the data I have provided.


    This one is simply tracking the total distance traveled over time, from the start of AB to the coast back down to cruise speed. It shows how much the ESFs differ in how far they've gone at the end of their AB cycle.


    Here's a different picture of the same data, now we're looking at how far the ESF travels in each step of time.

    I think the most interesting thing you'll see in this graph, that you may not immediately pick up on, is the afterburner duration. They all have a 4.25 second burn time.

    Prior to the 1/12 hotfix, here are the numbers we had for AB burn time:

    Mosquito: 5.3 seconds
    Scythe: 5.3 seconds
    Reaver: 6.87 seconds

    So beyond simply increasing Reaver Acceleration, they also reduced their AB fuel by 2.62 seconds. The other ESFs suffered a similar reduction in fuel capacity by 1.05 seconds, as all now have a uniform burn time.
    • Up x 7
  2. Was quite confusing at first. It might be clearer if you just separate the time row from the table and label the axis Time (s) and just leaving the Y values you listed below in a seperate table below.
    Nevertheless, nice work. Again, the reaver fails to excel at what it's supposed to. (having a superior afterburner)

    So, to compensate for our huge hitbox and unwieldiness, we get a 15 meter advantage when afterburning our full tank for 4,5 secs. Neat.
    Other esf get better hitboxes, breaks, and acceleration. Nice.
  3. I love the stealth nerf to afterburner duration that of course hit NC hardest.
  4. I'm honestly really sick of these un-documented changes. I'm not talking about scythe or w/e being changed, but just that there is always un-documented changes that end up being the most controversial. It's really bad practise.
    • Up x 6
  5. Btw how did you measure the distance? using a waypoint? Does the distance update every 0,25 s?
  6. I used my speedometer and a little math. 0.25 seconds was an arbitrary interval I chose because I had been using it for my other graphs.

    Specifically, the equation I used in my excel spreadsheet was
    Where B6 = ~68.33m/s and C6 = ~75.28m/s

    It's similar to calculating distance traveled over time at a constant speed, except you're adding in the distance gained due to acceleration for the period.
  7. Hmm, I guess I picked up on this immediatly since I went one round with pods then for the rest of the evening I have been using fuel tanks since I couldn't get anywhere without it.

    Not sure what to say other then the devs are out on thin ice here.

    Odd stealth changes if they are accurate.

    Why give reavers slight increase in acceleration from the AB but reduce the duration like this, and have distance traveled uniform.

    Why give all ESF "fake bandaid" inertia from AB.

  8. Good work Spadar. This is...frustrating. I guess that's the best word for it. Do they really think the Reaver is OP or something that they have to keep making these changes? I read the patch notes and thought, great, getting closer to where it was, but now...frustrating
  9. Hey, just a heads up, by the time they "fix" the Reaver ESFs will be considered useless since flak will probably get some more buffs.
  10. Nothing to see here folks move along. So our afterburner duration was brought in line with the other fighters is it really the end of the world? I'm sorry but I see no point in QQing over these things, things get changed, its the nature of a game like this, the best piece of advice I can give right now is the same advice I gave to many people on other games, LEARN TO ADAPT to the changes or stop flying, QQing is not going to help anything. Welcome to balancing my friends, we are not the flavor of the month currently, and should we be the FOTM later, the TR and VS will be having this same exact conversation, getting nowhere.
  11. SoE listens to the squeaky wheel (see AA changes). If they do not know what is broken, it will not get fixed. They need to start giving detailed patch notes listing what changes were actually made. This is the second time I can say without a doubt changes were implemented without notes (the first being GU1's nerf to A2A missile damage [~42% to 36%].
    • Up x 1
  12. It's a DISCUSSION on latest changes to Reaver afterburner in official DISCUSSION forum where people come to DISCUSS, if you have nothing to add but pure "nothing matters because we will die in the end" twaddle, be the first to move along. You're ridiculous.
    • Up x 3
  13. Ahh but you see I am discussing this, my part in the discussion is to try to urge people to stop dwelling on little things like this and just learn to play around it. That way you will be a better pilot when/if changes ever occur.

    While I agree the ninja tweeks need to stop I do not see how the current afterburner system is broken, equal performance across the board may feel like it is broken to us now because we enjoyed a slightly longer afterburner burn than the other factions, but to the devs the tweek has made everything to "work as intended" now.
  14. According to the graphs provided by Spadar it looks like the Reaver is performing slightly better compared to the other two ESF's (in average speed), saying that the nerf hit the NC hardest when many complained about the reaver being underpowered before the patch is odd.

    if there were no AB time reduction then imagine how those graphs would look like.
  15. I think you're extrapolating a little too far off the graphs. It only shows the ESFs while they're under the influence of the afterburner.

    What sort of time scale are we looking at for average speed?

    If we extend it to the next possible full AB cycle the Reaver falls behind, in a foot race the Reaver will "eventually" lose, even if it's able to pull ahead for a period of about... 4.75 seconds against the Mosquito, and 5.5 seconds against the Scythe

    Distance covered after 18 seconds, or roughly the time it takes for the AB fuel tanks to fully recharge. The more exact time I've found is about 13.83 seconds.

    • Up x 1
  16. The underlying issue is the Reaver has no true advantage. Before the patch, it had the advantage of AB speed and fuel capacity. Now it only has speed (which gives us a 17m advanatge).

    SoE needs to stop doing +1 -1 changes and also list what changes are ACTUALLY made. Ninja nerfs are starting to get really annoying.

    Get your **** together guys and fix it.

    • Up x 2
  17. I honestly have come to think they are borderline incompetent, generally making reactive & sloppy balance changes and then burying the details in hopes no one will figure out how much they fudged the numbers.
  18. Yep, because we don't already have the worst cruise speed, biggest hitbox, and worst maneuverability. How dare we have one single advantage!
  19. In some ways this hotfix was more of a nerf to Reavers than it was a buff. Let me explain:

    Prior to the hotfix, it took Reavers approximately 2.5 seconds to reach their maximum speed of 354kph with afterburners. Post hotfix it takes them 1.75 seconds.

    That means, with a 6.87 second burn time, before the hotfix, Reavers could stay at their maximum Afterburn speed for a period of 4.37 seconds.

    Currently, with a 4.25 second burn time, they can maintain maximum speed for only 2.5 seconds before decelerating.

    So in terms of raw ground covered, Reavers are arguably worse of than they were before the patch.

    However what the increased acceleration with AB will do for dogfights, I'm not entirely sure. Considering the still-missing presence of inertia, it's still going to have less of an effect than it would have pre-GU1.

    Data I used for pre-patch numbers
    • Up x 1
  20. Its not the biggest, its a square pill shape, the mossie is a long fat stick, the reaver is a winged brick, the shapes look different but the actual area density in M squared are similar. Flatter bottom for you, but impossibly hard to hit side profile, wheras mossie is easy to line up to gun from a lead persuit (since its body is in the same plane as the engagement arc) but hard to fire from a cross angle, with reavers just noisy stupid things, no need to explain that.

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