MBT vs MBT finally balanced! nerf the prowler...

Discussion in 'Vehicle Discussion' started by SlingBlade, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. How come Mag is the only one that gets pro for evading shots at range, if it's

    1) The largest target, while prowler is considerably smaller
    2) Brakes, reverses direction and moves slower than the other 2
    3) Has slowest projectiles

    To me it seems that mag is actually worst at evasion and hitting evading targets. Balance, yeah...
  2. "MBT vs MBT finally balanced! nerf the prowler..."

    Way to contradict yourself in the title, OP.. :rolleyes:
    • Up x 1
  3. What.

    Have you seen the last graph Higby has show us?

    It paints a very different picture.
  4. Overall is the keyword here.

    Higby only shows us the Tank-vs-Tank K/D ratios. It says nothing about how good the tanks are against Infantry. And everyone knows that the Prowler outshines all the other tanks against infantry, by a large sum. But that was never taken into account when buffing/nerfing the MBTs.
    • Up x 1

  5. -sigh- I keep failing to take that into account since I only use AP on my Prowlers/Lightnings...
  6. Prowler's using nothing but HE pre GU2 != Same infantry farming numbers now that HEAT was buffed vs armor.

    For all we know people are actually back to using HEAT and the Prowler vs infantry numbers are down.

    So no, don't imply things you don't know. All we do know is that the Prowler is now somewhat even if a bit ahead of other MBT's in direct combat, as opposed to being the weakest by far beforehand. We have no idea if the infantry kills have declined, which they may very well have since HEAT/AP are more useful now and the Prowler is not a glorified infantry farmer.
  7. I'd accept a lil nerf to HEAT Splash to prowlers...

    lets not go all crazy of course, but there likely should be some balancing to that effect.

    reduce radius a lil... or the splash damage amount itself... by as much as 20-25% (either one, not both. If both more like 5-10%).

    This is under the assumption that prowlers single round HEAT splash is still the same as it's been since release.

    Ranik is right though, part of the main reason Prowlers were so infamous for farming infantry is over half the bloody prowlers used HE because tank fights were hopeless in the first place.... So I'd like to see some comparative metrics of each MBT's # of Inf kills per life (and preferably filtered to only include HEAT equipped MBT's in metrics) on avg since the update first.

    Oh, and honestly, I'd like to see some more Mags trying out the PPA. I used to use it on my Scythe and I know it can decimate infantry. Our Mauler is definitely better than it was but still seems lacking comparatively.

    I think the NC Shotgun Enforcer also needs some love for that matter
  8. Most likely, the graph for Prowler Infantry farming would fall around the 1.5 to the 1 ratio (does not mean 1 to 1 or 1.5 to 1, means in general, if a Vanguard gets 5 infantry kills/tank, then a Prowler might get 7.5).

    Infantry die to HE, and then hopefully choose not to respawn near said HE farming tank or try to get it killed.

    Does Prowler HE mess up infantry? Sure. But most infantry don't stick around to get farmed, I hope. They stay in their spawns or go elsewhere once it happens and then do the rocket pop shot and the Prowler HE is nullified.

    In addition, the reduced XP gain from infantry spawn kill (25 instead of 100) plus the nerfs to the HE have made it much more favorable to Prowler HE drivers to use real tank weapons.

    Once the splash damage is dealt with, normalizations will occur.
  9. You have a lot of hope.
  10. Please don't nerf the prowler. The thing is so big it plays pool with the planets.

    Never used the Mag but it sounds like it has to deal with the horrible PS2 hill physics the rest of us put up with.

    Fix vehicle traction 2013. This should be the new slogan of the forums. No longer shall that grassy hill be made out of ice.

    Prowler is fine. Mag is fine. Van is so-so (not gonna QQ here but we all know its subpar). The truth is that we need to fix traction before the tanks.
  11. Yes, i am sure that whenever a Prowler nerf is being discussed then all kinds of variables must be accounted for, but when the Magrider should be nerfed the only variable we need to take into consideration is the Tank-Tank K/D ratios.

    As a Vanu, i assure you that the HEAT was the most used one. And the Prowler still was a beast. Why? Because it was the only tank capable of instakilling killing infantry without having to reload.

    Really, it is ridiculous how much that needs to be known before we nerf the Prowler, yet everyone was screaming for months, without any knowledge of the stats, about nerfing the Magrider.

    What we DO know however, is that a HEAT prowler out-dps a AP-magrider. Balance? I see none.

    The Prowler should get as significant nerf to its Anti-infantry capabilities as the Magrider got to its Anti-tank capabilities. That is balance. Preferably, in the name of balance, the Magrider and Vanguard should also get a 25% DMG increase to its AOE, just like the Magrider got 25% buff to its AT damage.

    If the TR demands a 1-1 KD ratio between the tanks, then the only rational balance would be to give the tanks a 1-1 ratio for infantry kills aswell.

    The Mag PPa have a much slower firing-rate. It is good, but the other Secondaries are generally better.

    I have asked SOE for Overall K/D ratios since the patch, but haven't recieved any response.

    Great. So nerf the Prowler AOE by 30%, or buff the Magrider and Vanguard by 50%. Fair should be fair.

    The thing is, with the Prowler, it's not a matter of sticking around. Its a matter of being anywhere with even the tiniest opening. I was fighitng at Vanu Archives the other day. 5 Prowlers were below, and thanks to them it was completely impossible to go near any window or doorway. They were under a constant barrage. So our only option was to stay in the spawnroom, or to die.

    As i said, The prowler had the best Anti-infantry capabilities Pre-patch. Since then it have been nothing but buffed. What do you think have happened?

    The prowler should be nerfed to be as good/bad against infantry as the other tanks. Either that, or it should give up its superior AT-capabilities. It makes absolutely no sense for it to have both.
  12. Yes because a nearly 3x MBT vs MBT K/D ratio = Some MBT vs INF K/D ratio we haven't been told yet :rolleyes:

    Like I said stop assuming things we don't know. Was higby adding total K/D ratio the first time he compared tanks? Does the GU2 update chart also have a flipside where the Prowler may now have less kills vs infantry?

    Stop assuming things because you've got your panties in a bunch and want to mense about the Prowler. If it's OP they'll dial it back. The problem is you are already assuming it's the exact same as it used to be, despite the fact that it may now have viable AV options and thus lower infantry kills.

    Seriously, tone it down with the tears.
    • Up x 1
  13. #1: That first sentence is quite erroneous. Not 1-1 Tank vs Infantry balance... no tank is 1-1 against infantry. All tanks can farm infantry quite well indeed quite frankly. The TR just has an easier time of it. Ergo, the balance that needs to be achieved is to bring the prowler in line with the other tanks, which are no way in hell 1-1. (unless you're terribad).

    #2: The prowlers AI ability has not been buffed, with the exception of the velocity increase to all grenade rounds which included the Mauler (and yet I still see no Maulers in use, so effectively, no buff). Our AI is the same as it always was (and actually nerfed alongside everyone else with the nerfs to HE)

    Please stop with such gross inaccuracies if you want to have a real discussion

    It doesn't have "superior AT capabilities"... they're about equal right now. The Mag is going to get some of it's Maneuverability back as well when they sort out a couple of your movement related bugs which should really even out the MBTvMBT numbers.

    It does have superior AI ability, this I can agree with, but you're over exaggerating and using some flat out false statements to present your case. We can fire 2 shots faster than the other tanks with our primary HEAT rounds which are mostly identical against inf as the other tanks... however it's not 2x as fast... there is a delay between the first and second shot, and then a full reload between the 2nd and 3rd. So the splash and or damage of splash can be nerfed and it would likely bring them closer in line with the other tanks, but 20% would be rather significant to either.
  14. Yeah. The Magrider had 3x the Prowlers KD ratio. Yet somehow the Prowler performed similarly well. Somewhere the Prowler obviously compensated for its AT lacking. So either they measured the K/D ratio, the ability for the Prowler to fly upside down, or The number of freidnlies run over. See my point? how many statistics can they actually compare, and still not find the prowler better?

    People was free to assume the Mag was OP before we got the numbers. Apparently gameplay experience is only a viable excuse when TR have the short stick, is it? Pretty much everyone who have actually played the game knows that the Prowler is by far the best tank against infantry.

    Does the GU2 update chart also have a flipside where the Prowler may now have less kills vs infantry?

    How can the Prowler possible perform worse after everything about it got buffed?

    Funny, once again it is only legitimate complaints when TR does it. I remember Tr complaining for months about how the Magrider was OP. Then they get the OP tank, and somehow it is wrong to complain now.

    You accuse me of making assumptions, then you go and make the completely ridiculous assumption that More tank kills somehowleads to less infantry kills?

    I would gladly tone down my tears. If TR had done so months ago, before they cried themselves to a Magrider nerf.

    No, i didn't say 1-1 K/D ratio. I said 1-1 ratio. Meaning that the tanks are similar in ratios.

    The Prowler recieved an indirect anti-infantry buff, by getting an AT-buff, allowing it to deal with Magriders that would otherwise interfere with its Infantry killing, meaning it can survive longer. The buffed Anchor mode also allows for much longer range-shooting, meaning safer infantry farming.

    The HEAT Mag is superior to the AP-mag in tank combat. How is that not directly superior? The prowler can retain its Infantry killing power and still wipe the floor with AT-dedicated tanks.

    You also have shorter reload times, and with the anchor you can get an immensly increased Fire-rate. So no, saying that you have 2x the Fire rate is not a gross overstatement.
    • Up x 1
  15. Jesus you are deliberately being dense. If the Prowler AP / HEAT sucked THEN THEY WOULD ONLY USE HE. THUS A LOT OF INFANTRY KILLS.

    If the AV and only AV is then buffed then people would start using it and lose some of that infantry farming potential.

    It's not rocket science but you seem to be so incredibly biased you can't understand a simple concept
  16. The same could be said about you.

    When did i say the Prowler AP/HEAT sucked? They are OP. Just like the HE is OP. If a prowler HE can beat a Vanguard AP, then it is OP. Since the HEAT have even more damage, it is even more OP.

    Except that the Infantry kill potential between HE and HEAT is minimal, after the 25% Reload increase. So any Infantry Farming reduction is hardly noticeable, since most people switched to HEAT anyways.

    It's actually hilarious to see someone be so biased himself, defend the Prowler being OP, despite just a month ago crying like a baby on the forum about how the Magrider was OP and the prowler was bad.

    But seeing as how you are too immature to keep a civilized tone, but rather prefer to resort to childish insults, i have no further desire to discuss with you. Your cried when the Mag was OP, and now you ***** and moan when the Vs say the Prowler is OP.
  17. What on earth are you even talking about? The Prowler prior to GU2 was the worst tank by far. It struggled in all MBT vs MBT engagements and was ONLY useful farming infantry.

    If you can't see the simple point that the Prowler was only good for farming infantry, thus using HE prior to GU2. Then you aren't worth talking to and suffer from some sort of complex.
  18. And it still hasn't changed :D prowler is caca

    I want SOE to make a Burger camo for the tank. Make it free and only for TR prowler. bun on top, lettuce, tomatos, meat, pickles, bun. Booya instant Burger tank camo. Add accessories for 50 sc cheese, onions
  19. Am I speaking in latin or something or is that other guy just not getting it? lol
  20. Qaz

    how is this even remotely relevant? As has become apparent, the design goal is not asymmetrical balance but rough equality in numbers. Yet, the prowler retains more than TWICE the infantry killing potential of the other tanks (if you don't know, a prowler HE shell does 1k damage, which is the same as mag/van, but it fires twice and can thus instagib anything while everyone else has to wait 5 seconds). Whether or not HE is still the preferred weapon for the prowler doesnt matter ... this needs adjusting if we're now going for 'equality'.

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