Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Bape, Dec 2, 2013.
Not really. You're either good or you're not good. There's no middle-ground.
Nah, NC's just good for farming on Connery.
This thread has had some very interesting discussion on what people think Higby was stating verses what he is stating, so I want to clear up some things. (Also I cleared out some conversations that were clearly violating our Forum Guidelines. I'm watching you.)
Higby is not saying that the NC will not receive any changes in the future. In fact, they will, but it is less of an overall "NC buff" and more so balance passes for all factions via various aspects of our game - whether that be weapons, vehicles or abilities. Do keep in mind that balance is something that we are always trying to strive towards and as we introduce more utility to factions, that becomes something we have to continually tweak.
Also, note that we are always looking at how our players behave - what they are doing, where they are doing it and how they are doing it. We have tons of data that allows us to figure out what we need to change on the levels side and the gameplay balance side. Although we may not always make the right decisions (hey, people make mistakes), we definitely note where mistakes have been made and move forward.
As far as NC goes, I often see NC players not taking advantage of their parts of the "asymmetrical balance" that Higby mentions. You have a plethora of weapons that are quite powerful in specific situations. You know what these situations are. You know how to get into them, yet often I see NC players disregard those situations. On the flip-side, I've seen some amazingly smart NC players use their weapons in proper situations and rack up some crazy plays. Something to think about.
Now before I close this thread, let's try to make something productive out of this. In ONE SENTENCE, per question, answer the following questions:
What makes you feel that NC is unbalanced?
If you could change one thing about the NC's balance, what would it be?
What's your favorite aspect of NC balance?
Please try to refrain from responding to other people's posts. I really want to gather a variety of opinions before I close this thread.
IMO, NC feel most unbalanced in terms of vehicles and MAXs whereas our infantry weapons are nearly where they should be; my favorite aspect is hard hitting and armored, of which I'm willing to take some tradeoffs in the name of asymmetric balance, but not having air-support, having to play conservatively with tanks, and being unable to fully utilize a MAX AI weapon outdoors really pigeons holes alot of NC competitive potential whereas the other empire's are quite a bit more flexible in those regards.
One thing I feel is lacking is a quick TTK option for the top turrets for the Harasser and the Vanguard. The Enforcer ML85 is a very effective damage over time tool, but it doesn't have a large alpha strike like the Vulcan or the Saron.
That is one of the areas I feel we are at our weakest as the ML85 can kill infantry in ~2 direct hits, but with nowhere near the potential of the other factions top turrets.
The C85 Modified is a laugh at best, and I know there has been a comment on the official thread that its "getting buffed" or changed. For a faction that has been perceived as a "High damage, high recoil" type of faction I'm surprised we don't have turrets like that! Instead we get a very solid damage over time turret, and a useless one - only good for gibbing one or two infantry at point blank range. A feat even a kobalt in its current iteration could do better!
The best aspect of our balance hands down is the Vanguard. The Vanguard having a single high velocity shot allows expert tank drivers to one shot ESFs that hover, and focus fire hovering liberators. Its a common tactic between me and my friends. The extra armor coupled with a shield and nanite auto repair makes the tank a force to be reckoned with in close range, giving us a close range high alpha strike turret could actually hamper some things with the shield in its current form, because we would just demolish sunderers and MBTs/lightnings at close range if coupled with AP rounds.
I'm not picking and prodding at one specific weapon and I do think all NC infantry guns are quite capable, but from a novice perspective they aren't very easy to pick up due to the fact the bullet spread in fully automatic isn't very great at medium range. I'm not a fan of bloom or cone of fire and wished our guns had more recoil and less deviation - because random deviation isn't fun and hurts you in a panic situation.
The Phoenix which for some reason I don't use often is still effected by my "Invert Vertical Flight" controls to this date... its just lacking in terms of DPS even when combined with a force of troops. My squad of four heavies and an engineer struggled to kill one vehicle while focus firing because the shot takes so long to reach the target coupled with a long reload speed. I feel compared to the Lancer and the Striker that I am ripped off in terms of fun. Using the Phoenix isn't fun, its slow - tedious - and not rewarding in terms of the time you spend or the points you accrue. I really hope this weapon gets changed so it is more entertaining to use! Even another un-fun aspect of it is how your missile "disappears" at the 300m magical range right in front of your targets. Thats infuriatingly frustrating considering the range of the other empires launchers at ~500m. It is just a lackluster weapon and puts us at a disadvantage in terms of AV potential.
The Reaver is a blast when I play it, though my gripes are about general ESF play and not specifically the NC Reaver. I love the air hammer and I love the art in this game, I'll fly it like an ambush fighter and jump on top of people - and use the air hammer to cancel out nanite auto repair on liberators trying to gun me down with a dalton!
Last but not least I'm not enjoying the changes to the Scattermax in MAX v MAX combat. The Scatmax is entirely 100% fine versus infantry, with extended mags and proper aiming in close quarters you can engage infantry and kill them with one shot from each arm simultaneously. On the other side of the coin not everyone has extended mags, and for me to kill a max in 1v1 combat I must go into point blank range and unload 9/10 or 10/10 shots into their FACE after charging them in order to kill them because there is not enough time with the long reload to sustain fire to kill the enemy MAX. I don't think there is an easy way to balance this because faster reloads or more ammo means were back in the same point with close range MAX combat which people don't like being obliterated by them, as seen by all the flak against the ZOE which is very akin the the past Scattermax. Maybe something could be done with the damage values in MAX v MAX combat separately to allow us to be more effective in fighting them. We also lack a medium range AI gun, which makes putting our maxes to use in medium range infantry support roles impossible - limiting us to close range options only. We have no choice but to bring them with shotguns! That and our AV Max Weapons just feel subpar compared to the TTK and destruction of comets and fractures. Those guns designed for AV use are clearly still great AI weapons that destroy people, I'm not saying we should have that - but we should have similar on par options are the balance pass to engage enemy infantry - right now were behind in that aspect.
(asking for all this in one sentence is a bit much so.. one for each)
1. the nanoweave that puts nc slowfiring weaponry at the biggest disadvantage
2. no more shotguns.
3. the gauss saw is clearly defined in that the disparity between those that know how to use it and those that dont is huge; its not just a matter of changing the way one drags the mouse but how one adjusts their character's movement (should have more weapons like this imo)
1) Disillusionment and my inherent sense of entitlement as a white, American male
2) Gauss SAW is not a good heavy starter weapon for new players
3) MAX Shield
But seriously, you said it in your own post. NC have some phenomenal options for competent FPS players. But for new players, particularly those without much of an FPS background, it's the most difficult empire to pick up and play.
Reaver: great once you understand how to utilize vertical thrust in maneuvers, but that can take hours and hours of practice (true for all ESFs, but particularly the Reaver)
MAX Shield: clearly the most well balanced MAX ability, it rewards smart play, especially in groups, without being obnoxious like ZOE or useless like lockdown.
Gauss SAW: it's referred to the God SAW for a reason. Extremely powerful in the hands of a good player, but not a good weapon like the Orion or Carv to jump in and play with no certs. There are dozens of posts throughout the forum on the topic of switching the NC starter for the heavy, this really needs to be looked at.
1. All the convergent evidence from different data beginning with release and extending to the present- e.g. SPM, KDR, KPU, WDS, etc., etc.
2. NC are billed as the damage faction but given ROF they often deal the least damage, NC should deal the most damage.
3. The sound and models.
The focus on shotguns. With the benefit of a years worth of hindsight, it simply has not been working for them, seeing that most of thier ES shotgun weapons have been languishing on the side of useless or being inferior in many respects to what the other empires have.
Another thing is the notable difference in starting weapons compared to other empires. The Gauss SAW is not a weapon to be given to beginners.
The ESF situation is not for me to comment on. The closest association i have with ESFs theese days is when my Galaxy flys into them.
First up, give the NC MAX a competitive midrange option.
Followed by making the C85 a competitive weapon. Even if it means making it something other than a shotgun.
Make the NC default LMG something other than the SAW.
1. The cost imbalance of our CQC weapons. NC cannot get a CQC carbine, which also has a cof bloom of .06/.12 despite being a 143 damage weapon, without spending 1000 certs. Our cheap "CQC" LMG does not have the dps to fill that role leaving us with the only viable option being another 1000 cert weapon.
2. Redesign the razor to be a 698rpm/143 damage weapon with a moving ads cof of .25 and buffing the rof of the em1.
3. The specialization of our equipment. Good at its intended role but terrible outside of it. This is also a downside as VS and TR do not share the same specialization of their equipment.
More than 1 sentence but you cannot reasonably expect those question to be answered in only 1 sentence.
Note: Define "powerful". Our MAX is one of these "powerful" tools you are talking about? because having 0,1 sec of ttk against 0,2 of the other 2 MAX in exchange for being UTTERLY useless at long range and 2 times the reload time is a joke.
2: If you are going to give us "Asymmetrical balance" make it gives TRUE advantage when using the right weapon.
NC MAX: Double our magsize. we are CqC? FINE but we need to have the power to kill everything that enters this "CqC". And our small clip and LONG reload is completely denying it.
200 damage weapons: Add 100 of bullet speed . A "mid/long" range weapon needs to have more bullet velocity. doesn't matter if my bullet hits like a truck if the enemy can dodge, yes a "good" player know how to aim at the enemy and a better know how to dodge your shoots.
3: Right now? Our weapons sound.
DUDE it feels good.
What makes you feel that NC is unbalanced?
INF - hardhitting but slower is fine. But very often the hardhitting means NC starts the fight and lands every shot but still looses as soon as the opponent returns fire. Somehow it is a comnbination of flinch/bloom/not enough damage compared to the other factions.
ARMOR - Aim is off. Bullets simply don`t land where they should. Which often means you need one shot just to re-adjust your aim.
AIR - Reaver feels like a flying cow. Any improvement is good...
If you could change one thing about the NC's balance, what would it be?
Adjust damage output so it works while under fire and not only when there is no resistance.
What's your favorite aspect of NC balance?
Hardhitting (once it will work).
1. A few of the New player ( default ) items have a higher skill floor compared to their TR/VS new player friendly counterparts.
2. Changing the Gauss SAW to a more New player friendly starter weapon, retaining the SAW as an unlock instead.
3. The variety of weapon choices for different situations once unlocked ( doesn't help new players though )
1. Inconsistency of weapon effectiveness.. sometimes i feel I'm shooting blanks and others like i just blew someone up with a nuke.
2. Greater reliability and confidence that my weapons will actually down someone at the start of an engagement, a problem i don't seem to have with my VS counterpart.
3. Slower rate of fire
I obviously meant one sentence PER question. Edited the original post to note that, but thank you for those who did follow my directions.
I'll be compiling responses, so keep them coming.
Lack of viable AI or AV ES secondaries. The Enforcer is inferior to the halberd at doing crowd control, for example, when attempting to take out Sundies as HAs fire back. TR has the Vulcan to mount on their harassers, which can blanket an area with enough raw damage to kill fleeing infantry no matter how evasive they are. The Saron also has amazing burst damage against armor up close and enough splash to at least scare away infantry. The enforcer sounds like a firework and is about as scary to infantry as a hand grenade.
Don't even get me started on the E-mod. At best it can match the fury at point blank range.
The weapons I enjoy are ones with versatility. DMR and NC6 are nice long range, but still harder to use up close. Even a single bullet missed is generally death, for a small advantage in damage. At midrange you're still likely to get mowed down by a TAR before you can scope in. There's just no all-around weapon for NC, and every weapon we have that excels situationally (translation, inspires fear) has gotten the nerf-bat because it wasn't fun to die to.
TL;DR - There is nothing left in the NC arsenal that inspires any kind of fear. I'd say there's nothing we have that's even an annoyance besides the Vanguard shield.
Woops! Yeah I never was good at paying attention.
It is clear that the NC weapons excel at specific situations. If they buff the NC then some players will enter in a god mode state because we played under powered for so long that any kind of buff becomes a super buff. Most of the best VS/TR players i know are ex-NC players.
The mistake from SOE was forcing us to overcome our weapon weakness, now they cant really buff us or we will become Gods
What do you mean by this? Could you elaborate on the weapons and situations that favor NC?
Relatedly, what are the weapons and situations that favor VS/TR?
In other words, it sounds like you are saying that certain NC weapons require specific conditions in order to be relatively effective but you do not elaborate on what these are and likewise this would seem to imply that VS/TR weapons are similar in that they require specific conditions in order to be relatively effective. So, no offense, but this does sound an awful lot like VS/TR are just better players because they know how to combine the weapon and the situation. Well, that, or, VS/TR weapons simply work better in general (i.e. across situations) and therefore they do not need to focus as much on matching the loadout to the situation. Thoughts?
Separate names with a comma.