New idea-Get rid of A2A rocket pods entirely

Discussion in 'Vehicle Discussion' started by Jagged92, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. So dogfighting isn't dog fighting anymore its I GOT LOCK ONS I WIN.
    Remove this skill-less ********
    Also on a side note make A2G rockets force a choice between bringing AP rockets or HEAT rockets for inf or Armor
    NOT BOTH!
    Also set a ping limit on the server of about 200-300ms because laggy players are also becoming a ever increasing problem.
    • Up x 4
  2. A2G need to choose between Unguided Aoe rockets with weaker damage, and A2G missiles that act as armor piercing no AOE high damage, and require a Lock (anti-tank only).

    I Haven't been able to get ESF rockets yet so i can't make a good determination on the A2A, without rockets though i feel useless when piloting a ESF.
  3. A2A rockets are pointless, they take the fun out of dog fighting cause all you do is point and shoot. It is WAY too easy to get a lock, and you can do it in the middle a dogfight. You should NEVER be able to lock on with A2A in the middle of a ******* dog fight.

    I also agree that dumb rockets need to be forced to choose between low AOE Armor Piercing, or high AOE Anti-Infantry. Rocket pods are all too effective, and should be situational rather than always viable.
    • Up x 1
  4. (Gunna copy and paste a reply that I have given to so many of these dumb threads)

    Ok perhaps i'm missing something here but:

    If they are behind you, or in any position to be locking onto you, it doesn't matter what weapons they're using - you're not going to win the dogfight.

    IF anything the lock-on gives you a very good indication that you are being tailed (depending on the situation of course) and you need to start making some aggressive manoeuvres in order to shake the tail. (A favoured tactic is too AB to the nearest LOS - hover near the LOS - hovering near this LOS makes finding the attacker much easier, and breaking his inevitable second lock much much easier - with the LOS) The flares avoiding the first missile and the 5-seconds after should give you more than enough time to locate the threat and respond to it. This is exactly the reason why heat-seekers have become redundant in Battlefield 3.

    The fundamental point behind these 'skill-less' A2A missiles is: They take a lot less skill, but are not effective and even counter-effective against a more skilled pilot.

    Against a good pilot - using the lock-on missiles lets the pilot know he is being tailed, and allows him to react accordingly.

    Against a good pilot - using the main gun he will have killed the pilot before he even knew he was there.

    The point stands that if a pilot is staying behind you long enough to keep the lock-ons and reload his missiles, he could have shot you down with his main cannons - although it would take more skill, it is rewarded with a faster kill and a better element of surprise.

    This is how it's worked for me, and I'm still chugging the standard cannon on my scythe...

    When it comes to G2A missiles, it's simple. You have overstayed your welcome. As time goes on you will see more people certing into these, and it will make these 'zomg OP rocket pods' a lot less effective, and in fact quite dangerous to use.

    The only exception to the rule is when 2 pilots use lock-on missiles in a coordinated attack, and unless you do some pretty sick flying - they're going to win this fight. Not because of A2A missiles - because they are working together.

    In short:

    A2A missiles, are bad. They are easy to use, because they are bad. They are easily countered, gives targets the advantage, takes away their A2G capabilities, and the damage really isn't anything to write home about. Any kind of nerf to this, whether it be having to hold the lock, nerf damage, removed - whatever, is NOT needed.

    Again, perhaps i'm missing something?
    • Up x 2
  5. I don't mind how it is now.

    If you spec your ESF for air superiority, you are good for taking out ESF.

    If you spec for bomber, you're good for taking out libs, gals and ground targets.

    A2G ESFs only hard counter atm is A2A ESF.
  6. True. If you're in a position to lock on to your opponent, you're in a position to give chase. If a skilled pilot is behind you, it doesn't matter what gun he is using. You either lose the tail or you die.
  7. I dont get it a2a rockets? where are those rockets I only see a2a missiles. whatever, a2a missiles on the scythe is the biggest junk besides the a2g rockets on the scythe. Also pointless when you need full ammo for a mbt , without he can just move away. Ah and the second thing a2a missiles against a scythe is also pointless because I can dodge every missile who get a lock on without flares. AT from heavys kill me more than a pointless a2a , sure I would die when I dont see the lock on but that is why ATs can kill me.

  8. Remove skill less Dumb fire rockets against ground units. Anyone who can keep the ESF in the air can use them and rack up the points. You can neutralize any threat before it can kill you. Fly away repair.....

    Now everything in the game is here for a reason. The Dumb fire rockets are here to greatly increase Ground effectiveness of the aircraft and they do it incredibly well whilst providing the good pilots with a hugely damaging A2A weapon when aimed correctly the latter i think they do to well and should have there damage against air vehicles reduced greatly. They do however give a disadvantage when going against A2A as you lose the afterburner for the chance to hit Air vehicles with dumbfire.

    The A2A pods are there to define the aircraft and boost its ability to deal with air. They should provide a great advantage to Dog fighting and end the fight quickly. Whilst the A2G missiles have the ability to hit air vehicles the A2A missile cannot be used at all against ground units so they only have 1 way to deal with the ground and its not great.

    So the ESF with A2G gains a huge advantage over ground units along with the ability to do incredible damage to air units when used properly.

    The ESF with A2A missiles specializes in taking out Air units only. often they run with the Rotary for even more air power since the main gun is pretty bad at A2G effectively giving up the ability to deal with ground targets. They should have a huge advantage over Air vehicles.

    Personally i dont think the A2A missile should miss its target ever unless flared, It should travel alot quicker and have a bigger travel range before exploding.. If you want to be able to dominate the ground and take every upgrade to help you do that you should be a lot weaker to Air based attacks. If you get locked on by an A2A missile you should immedietly start heading back to a safe zone with the aircraft in chase providing your team mates a chance to kill it as you fly back. You can flare the first missile buying you more time. the 2nd missile will hit you but only if they are still chasing you. If you hang about and try to dog fight them then ofc your going down. If you hang about to finish your target off you are going down. Retreat the moment you start to get locked.
  9. Man, I've really enjoyed watching your twitch stream since beta. But you're getting a little out of control with the A2A missile and lagging rants. You're gonna like pop a blood vessel in your brain or something. I've seen many people lag out and others say that I have -- yet I'm on the top AT&T broadband plan.

    I've seen many people out-run and out-maneuver my missiles and I have been really impressed with people's flying skills. Dodging behind rocks, popping out flares -- it's all fun as hell. I would hope you take it as a challenge and not as a game-breaking feature. I've enjoyed making my scythe an air superiority beast with racer, stealth, missiles and guns. I hardly ever hit ground targets, but cover my bombers. Nothing wrong with that play style right?
  10. The A2A rants are getting out of control in general. The topic's been talked to death and it's been determined that the weapon is as requiring in skill as any other. It's simply more specialized to a specific task than others...all the while maintaining some pretty hefty penalties against targets outside and even inside it's designed parameters.
  11. Oh so on my live stream I took my hand off my keyboard and was able to down 3 people with them before I had to place my other hand on the keyboard from other people tailing me. ONE HANDED its easy as **** to use and air combat should be nothing but skill which it isn't anymore its lock ons and whom has the worse connection. Seen my rockets countless times fly through people and take damage from people missing me by almost 40m. IF these aren't removed the devs can count a loss of my friends and I because we are all sick of this skill-less ********.
    • Up x 1
  12. I think you are greatly overestimating the average pilots ability to stick to a guy's tail long enough to get the kill with a machine gun while the guy he is chasing is doing barrel rolls and sharp turns. Guns require you to get much closer to your target to land effectively and require leading the target which makes it easier for the prey to out maneuver you. These A2A missiles can be locked on from a good distance making it rather easy for the killer to keep his prey within his sights for long periods of time. Fire. Forget. Profit.

    Someone mentioned its even easy to do this while in 3rd person view. I no longer have my A2A missiles to test this theory, but I wouldn't be surprised if his claims were accurate.
  13. A2A: The only viable Anti-Air solution.
  14. Given that you're attempting to strip away a weapon that allows specialization for a vehicle, just as crucial as machineguns are to heavy infantry...

    ...well, why don't I just help you pack your bags? I mean, it might help get you out the door a little faster.

    On a more serious note, I try my best to avoid counter-marketing, but I'll go ahead and call your bluff on the proposition of the playerbase being crippled by your departure. If you'd brought this up back during beta, where the investments into both the Station Cash and Certifications were as easily resolved as just wiping it prior to release, then your complaints would be justified. Things could have been done.

    Instead we're at a point where more will end up leaving if we drown them in the same bureaucratic web of getting refunds for the sake of appealing to a vocal minority. It's too much work to resolve the overexaggerations of the said minority, when they've presented cases that have been proven to be purely based on opinion alone. These weapons are just as demanding in skill as any other. You managed a streak with certifications applied and what we can only take as being nothing more than your word to the effort you maintained until the end.

    By the way, your bags are packed. If you want, I can drop them off at SWTOR for you.

    The funny thing is, those people were likely lying. Exaggeration is one of the most common causes of misunderstanding and error.

    As far as it really goes, maintaining a bead on the enemy target at the 'sweet-spot' range is as easy with your cannons as it is with the missiles. They're far enough to render their maneuvers as no more than fancy dancing, yet close enough to be a big enough target to hit accurately. If you get any closer than that, their maneuvers beat your aim and we're back to the point that they don't work if they're not aimed at you. Get any further than the sweet-spot, and the missiles just don't lock on to begin with.

    You'd be dead either way.
    • Up x 1
  15. Right but that's my point, average pilots need A2A in order to bring their game up - but the second they lock onto an above-average pilot, they will be punished for it.

    Now you put the A2A in the hands of a good pilot, and he will become a danger in the skies, and rightly so - because he gave up pretty much all A2G capabilities in order to do just that.

    However - fact remains that a sick pilot, will stick to the main guns - if that sick pilot sneaks up on any other pilot with a rotary cannon, hell even the standard cannon, the guy he is chasing will be dead before he had a chance to react. The TTK is just mental if you're a decent shot. (And mental in a good way, skill should be rewarded)

    A2A missiles are very counter-effective for the user, if their enemy has the slightest clue how to react to A2A.

    So many pilots lack basic situational awareness - combine that with flying like a lunatic (out in the open, out in enemy territory etc) and they're bound to get caught out.
    • Up x 1
  16. Oh thats funny I'm not saying the player base is being effected but judging from what you said your to short sighted to understand that.
    The point of a game is to make money
    You make an easy mode gun that everyone can win even though they are a half ***** pilot will get you money in the short run. But then when it comes down to it players will leave because the skill is lost from the game, subscriptions=money----1 time fee of 7$=win =less money
    And...ANY GOOD PILOT KNOWS A ROTARY CAN KILL A TANK SAME AS THE DEFAULT GUN IN ABOUT 1-2 MAGS TO THE REAR!
  17. Congrats on having your most important controls bound to your mouse like everyone else.
  18. I use default controls except my bail out key...I just have weapon swap on my mouse that is all.
  19. as I say it before , a2a missiles are pointless. I only was killed by one. All others dodge without flares. And I like that, to dodge them because those AA missile players cant do anything when you can dodge and turn and give them the rotary what they deserve.
  20. Ok, you are just completely wrong, first off, the guy who posted this is the best pilot I've ever seen, and I'm willing to bet much better than you. With that out of the way, a better pilot should ALWAYS win a dogfight against a worse pilot. You seem to have this idea in your head that a counter means they win in a 1v1 fight. FALSE. Flak never wins 1v1 fights with fighters, and flak's sole purpose is to take out aircraft. So why should a ESF be able to not only win 1v1 fights with other fighters, but also be able to move at over 300 km/h, and be able to easily take out infantry and light armor? You shouldn't be able to fly solo with A2A missiles and succeed in dog fights, you are a support vehicle, not the front line. Now, before you say: "but a skilled pilot will beat a pilot with A2A missiles". Well, what will that skilled pilot be using? A CHAIN GUN. What does the ESF with A2A missiles have with it? A CHAIN GUN. So because of this the deciding factor(if both pilots are of equal skill level) will be the secondary, and A2A missiles are a lot more effective in dog fights than rocket pods. So A2A missile guy wins.

    So lets think about this, the pilot with A2A missiles as a secondary can easily take out:
    Flak Cannons
    Other ESFs
    Infantry
    Light Armor
    Liberators
    Galaxies
    So the only thing that a decent ESF pilot with A2A missiles can't easily kill is heavy armor.

    Are you still trying to say that this is not a problem?
    And your concept of dogfighting is off, its not just: tail him, lose him, he tales me. There are quite easy tactics which allow you to both be aiming directly at each other, while still being able to maneuver to dodge the other's fire. Like, flying backwards maybe? (revolutionary I know). So your argument saying that if a pilot is in position decent pilot is in position to get a lock on you, you are dead whether or not you are using A2A missiles, is completely invalid.

    Final Thoughts: A2A missiles are just a straight upgrade to any other alternative, and when there is no other better or equal weapon, that weapon is OP. NO WEAPON SHOULD BE BETTER THAN OTHER WEAPONS THAT GO IN ITS SLOT. Selection of weapons are supposed to be situational, not set in stone. If I was trying to do the best I could, there would be no reason I would ever select rocket pods over A2A and that's the problem here. Picking A2A is 100% of the time MORE EFFECTIVE than rocket pods. The only thing you sacrifice in picking them is the ability to quickly take out heavy armor(Mind you you can still do it), and in return you get the ability to win any dogfight you come across. This is, of course, against players of equal skill, but even when facing better players, there are a large number of those better players than you that will STILL lose to you. You become not only the most effective, but one of only two ways to consistently kill aircraft, in exchange for your ability to easily kill heavy armor, which can already be consistently destroyed many other ways.

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