New idea-Get rid of A2A rocket pods entirely

Discussion in 'Vehicle Discussion' started by Jagged92, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. So when I lock on to you, either a) you are forced back into a defensive position, giving me the advantage -

    Depending on the situation, it could give either of us the advantage.

    -If you have locked on from far away, I will play hide-and-seek - and you will have to come and find me behind whatever LOS I am hugging. This will give me a huge advantage (it's the equivalent of camping in the air xD) because I now know where you're approx. going to come from and thus I can be on the trigger finger as well as doing an aggressive manoeuvre that will most likely leave you at a disadvantage, and the dogfight would follow - whoever can outmanoeuvre the other will win, regardless of weapon.

    -If you have locked on close to me, then it doesn't matter what LOS I go to - you are behind me, and you are close. Again, it really doesn't matter what weapon you use, I was an idiot, and let you get the upper hand. Skill > weapons

    B) your effective HP is lowered to half, because I have one garenteed rocket before you can get in a position to fire on me

    Kind of explained up there, it depends on the situation we are in, if you are close enough then yeah, there is going to be no avoiding the second missile, but again that was my fault for letting you get so close in the first place. You could kill me with your main cannon because I failed. It doesn't matter the weapon you use.

    If I was far enough away when you lock-on and fired the first time, then I stand a much better chance of finding cover, and using that cover to either surprise you - or continue to break your locks.

    Lets say YOU engage ME, then commence your average dogfight -

    If my shooting is perfect, you would be dead within a clip of rotary (it is very possible to shoot someone to death without being close enough for them to hear your engine btw, but understandably very skillful to do). My skill = rewarded.

    If my shooting is perfect, but I fire the A2A first - then I have just given the fact that i'm onto you away - and given you 2-3 seconds minimum to react, and 7-8 seconds tops. My skill-less = punished.

    Do you perhaps see where i'm coming from here?

    Edit: What i'm trying to say is, A2A missiles are not totally useless, in certain situations they can be useful, and will give a slight advantage to pilots who want to take out air, but it is often very situational. A good pilot will know when to, and when not to use them. (If he knows they've used flares, if he knows they're too close to flare them etc)

    If a pilot wants to trade-in his A2G capabilities for A2A superiority, he can do so, but if he doesn't use the A2A in the right way, at the right times - he could well be ******** on his own doorstep. This is certainly often the case for pilots against me. Another example of Skill > weapon.

    A good example of A2A being pretty much flawless in the skies, is if, like you said, two pilots use them together. But this isn't just down to the A2A itself, it's mainly due to 2 people working together. This is how it should be imo.
  2. Off topic, but if you are flying your ESF high enough to be safe from bursters, the bursters are doing their job, there is no way you can be effective from that height.
  3. No perfect shots when doing face to face dog fighting the A2A missiles never miss face to face unless you gun towards your target the rotary=miss minimum of 30% of your mag uncountable amounts alright so I'ma going to get some kind of gun and yo reaver pilot above me lets see you go on a 100 killstreak with your chaingun ONLY! I bet you can get 4-10 kills and die. Do you know why---Because you rely on them. I think with the current damage just make esfs carry 1 rocket and thats all because it takes no aim and to be honestly if you lock on reliant players use your chain gun I could probably take out 6 or 7 of you consecutively.
  4. This has nothing to do with me using this weapon or not. If you're not using A2A missiles you're using Rocket Pods, you specialize in ground targets. It's only logical that someone who specializes in air targets has the upper hand.

    Rocket pods are an equally skill-less weapon when it comes to killing ground targets as the A2A missiles are to air targets. You're simply bitter because someone is able to kill you effortlessly, just as you're able to effortlessly farm ground targets.

    When I run with my ground demolishing spec I most of the time get around 20-30 kills before someone shoots me down, at which point the spawn timer on the ESF is up and I can just grab a new one. I'm targeted by the HA homing missiles the majority of the time. A2A missile ESF's are pretty scarce, as most are busy farming easy kills on the ground.
  5. Who says I want to kill you? As long as you aren't rocketing my troops(or me) I'm fine with you being alive. This is why this weapon is OP, it allows nothing but dodging locks and missiles while being attacked. I have to run away from easy kills all tot often because I get locked. EDIT to continue: If you weren't using A2A, I'd simply deal with you first, but the fact that you have that 50% HP advantage starting fights, would force me not to fight you, and dodge your missile.
  6. Are you implying that a pilot who has specced for air superiority should not have the advantage over a pilot who has specced for A2G role?
  7. Oh so I didn't know that my dumb fires home and kill all aircraft and infantry and tanks---Good to know
    Dumb fires take almost 2 fold the skill to use if you wanna not be infantry farmer thus the post saying people should take AP rockets or HEAT so yeah.
  8. I couldn't entirely make sense of this, are you directing that at me? You are aware I don't even use A2A? Perhaps tone down the ****** a bit? If it wasn't directed at me, then I clearly misunderstood.

    And as far as missing 30% of my rotary (a pretty accurate guess in most fights) ok - you're still down to 30% health, and you have yet to damage me because I flared your first A2A.

    But god knows how you forced me into a face-2-face situation? ;)

    I realise this is all theoretical, but my points stands, and is ironically proven a lot in your video, that a good pilot is more than capable of countering people with A2A missiles.

    If a pilot has killed me with A2A missiles, I don't rage because he was using a 'skill-less' weapon, I rage because he was flying better than me ;)

    I think we will have to agree to disagree.
  9. This I agree with.
  10. ^
  11. Well, I'm done discussing this, I think we've made our points in great depth, and anything more would just be repetition. I am having trouble finding vocab to express what I am thinking, and that means time to stop, But first, final thoughts:

    Air-craft are becoming useless, all because of the A2A missiles, so much pressure is exerted with these that A2G attacks just don't get the chance to happen, this has to stop. I think the solution is simple, While I don't believe we should remove A2A missiles, I believe they should be nerfed in such a way that leaves them absolutely useless defensively. EX: if you are attacking an enemy, great that's fine, its how the counter is supposed to work, but when an enemy decides to take you out of the equation, you should be at a disadvantage in a dogfight. Maybe nerfing dmg, but upping the lock on and reload speed, and swapping it to a primary weapon would work. That way you can drill pre-occupied enemies with dmg, but when they come for you, you are at a disadvantage. Much like how all the other counters in this game work.

    EDIT: Either way I'm done with this thread, please don't reply directly to me.
  12. My squad was attacked by a bunch of mossies (30+) one time. 5, ONLY 5 Burster Max's were needed to fight them off. Its not effortlessly, and if you didn't notice, the post also calls for a nerf to rocket pods so you are still just picking a side cause thats what you use and you have no logical reason to pick it.
  13. Rocket Pods obliterate ground targets AND are pretty capable against a Liberator and Galaxy. A2A missiles are only good against one thing, air.

    If you remove the lock-on from A2A missiles (and the HA G2A) they'll just be useless, and the only thing that will be able to kill an ESF will be another ESF, unless flak is greatly buffed, at which point ESF will become useless. Be happy that the lock-on missiles are the only thing that can get you, you could have it way worse.

    More power to you. G2A Max's are pretty solid as well, I agree. But not very popular in non-organized groups. If I encountered such heavy resistance (which I have yet do encounter) I would simply bugger off to another spot on the map and continue farming there.
    • Up x 1
  14. i like A2A, i use it as a Good Bye weapon.

    chain gun faster at killing ESF and libs. but when you fight one we all do the same thing. Mad Dash to our side of the map so Ally forces will murder what shooting us.

    thous of us that think know that chaseing a Enemy in too thier area is a death trap for us. so thats where A2A comes in.

    lock on. fire break off got my zone and not follow him in too his. sometimes i get a kill out of it. most the time i don't but at least he not Podspaming my teammates anymore.
  15. A shame, considering the rotary has the advantage in the same circumstances that make a missile work. There's a limited realm of functionality for the missile, in which if you're too close or too far away, it doesn't work. The Rotary surpasses that and still works even in the 'sweet spot' where missiles work, if not better. Why?...well, probably because bullets go faster, they can manage instant followup shots until the magazine is dry and your maneuvers look like nothing but a one-step dance at the sweet-spot distance.

    Also, ESF's only get one missile....at a time. Given that the enemy has every opportunity to evade, detect and engage the offending Air-to-Air ESF, the reload time on the missiles is well enough to punish the operator for wasting their dedicated anti-air weapon, revealing their position and making themselves entirely vulnerable to what is usually a retaliatory strike.
  16. Umm...if they can target you long enough to lock onto you...doesnt matter what weapon they use...youve been in their crosshairs long enough to die.

    only advantage of getting locked is you have flairs as a live saver.
  17. If they change the a2a missiles im going to sue them for however many station cash it cost me for emotional distress.

    Leave them the way they are, if you cant handle them maybe you shouldnt be flying.
  18. I got a couple of things to say.

    1) Lockon weapons or not, if your "complaining", most likely you would have died to that guy anyway.
    2) Lockon weapons require less skill than guns, it's really not deniable and that's ok.
    3) During high skill level dogfighting between 2 serious A2A pilots, guns decide the victor not missles. (both are carying missles)
    4) Whatever changes, most of us will adapt, those that cry will continue to cry and get owned regardless.
    5) A2AM help A2A pilots engage and kill in 1 vs many situations which is necessary given the popularity of pods.
    6) A2AM help average pilots, and believe me, your most likely average, it's a statistical fact.
    7) I like turtles.
  19. YES! I knew I wasn't the only one...
    • Up x 1
  20. This is so false, it is miles easier to dodge chain gun bullets, you can barely move and still dodge them, but against anyone but a brain dead monkey, you have to get behind cover to dodge lock ons, its perfectly simple to keep their massive crosshairs on you.

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