Scout Rifles

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Huntsman-, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. Hey I recently bought the vanu artemis scout rifle so my infiltrator could have some effectiveness when, you know, infiltrating. Quite frankly this to me seems a complete waste of money and I wish I could get it back, I almost never use the thing anymore.
    It has only 20 rounds in the magazine and its fast rate of fire an inaccuracy make it difficult to hit with most of these. on top of this the damage is so bad that it seems to take 15 rounds to kill anything.

    Despite having paid money from this gun I still have no combat ability at close range. Either I spot an enemy running around and am unable to land enough rounds quick enough to kill him so he runs away and know where I am. Or if I have to fight with another class I have no chance to match with their damage, even if I fire first. often running out or rounds and having to reload without killing anyone. I played terrain in the beta and it seems I had far more luck with the terrain pistol as infiltrator than with this scout rifle I paid my money for.

    In adition it's useless at long range.

    Am I just doing something wrong or did I really waste my money on a worthless gun as a semiauto rifle seems to be better spamming at close range in desperate situations.
  2. You're not doing something wrong, the automatic scouts are weak at the moment. I'd recommend using the Nyx until they buff the Artemis in some way.
  3. The Artemis is very similar to the Solstice (default engi/LA carbine) in most respects.

    Artemis/Solstice
    - Damage per bullet: same
    - RPM: 652/698
    - Rounds per mag: 20/30
    - Vertical recoil: 0.3/0.25
    - Horizontal recoil: Equal left-right/some right
    - Projectile velocity: 500/515
    - Same hipfire CoF and CoF bloom per shot
    - And something like an extra 0.8 seconds to reload compared to the solstice.

    The vertical recoil ends up being more or less even due to the lower rate of fire. Assuming every round hits, the DPS/time-to-kill is a little lower than the Solstice for the same reason.

    I don't have any problem controlling this weapon in its intended range and I can live with its damage. The small mag and long-ish reload means that missing is more punishing than with other guns, but the main problem I have with it is simply running out of ammo.

    All in all, it's an average automatic with the exception of total ammo and ammo per mag. I'd love to see 25 rounds per mag.

    And for some reason the suppressor makes it sound like a sniper rifle :p
    • Up x 2
  4. What this guy said. If you use it as an infiltrator ought to it's not a bad weapon (save for the full ammo capacity). It's not supposed to be a frontline weapon for a toe to toe fight. It's best when you use it to sneak up behind targets or when applying hit and fade tactics with the cloak. And never forget to aim for the head, just because it shoots a lot of rounds doesn't mean you're going to take somone down in an instant.
  5. Automatic Scout rifles have 143 damage at 10m, and 112 damage at 65m.

    Some carbines, and AR's also have this damage as well. The difference is their RoF, and mag size compared to the Scout rifles. They have 30/40 bullets. You have 20. See the problem? If you go toe to toe with someone who is using any weapon other than a pistol, and you both start shooting at the same time....you will lose 99% of the time. This of course assuming you both have perfect aim, and there is no human error. Of course with human error present you can expect to come out on top sometimes.

    They expect you to use it as a sneak up behind someone and kill, rather than a toe to toe weapon. Even then, sneaking up on a HA that is well seasoned will get you rocked with this weapon. He will hit F and laugh as you mag dump. When you look at the death screen you will see you barely dented his shield.

    You swap weapons in anger.

    Semi Auto scout rifles get 10 bullets. Automatic get 20. You can kill 5 people with 1 clip of the Semi auto rifle. Try doing that with the automatic rifle.

    Semi-Auto Scout rifles have 334 damage at 10m, and 250 at 85m. Do you see how much more damage that is compared to the Automatic? Why would you not use this? The max range damage of the semi is MORE than the 10m damage of the automatic. Thats laughable.

    The Semi-Auto's are easily over looked because:

    1. You already get semio -auto sniper rifles, why get the scout version?

    and...

    2. Most people buy the automatic thinking its the balls.

    The other semi auto rifles are good, but when you know the true stats of the guns and how things work, the semi scout rifles have a few advantages in CQC that the other semi snipers do not.

    1. Cone of Fire per shot while ADS(aiming down sight) with the semi auto rifles is 1. Meaning there is bullet spread even while aiming through scope. Thats why you sometimes get those weird shots. The scout rifles have 0 spread when ADS.

    2. The CoF while hip firing is huge on the scout rifles as is, but its insane on the Semi-snipers.

    3. Scout rifles get to use the NS/HS x1 Scope. One of the best scopes in the game. People use it because its effective. The FoV is barely limited and it easily makes up for it by lighting up everyone like a x-mas tree.

    Note: None of the Scout rifles, or Sniper rifles need the Foregrip attachment. There is no horizontal recoil on any of our guns. Its a waste, and anyone who tells you otherwise does not know how things work.

    Double note: Compensators/forgrips DO NOT work on Semi-auto weapons. They DO work for automatic weapons.

    That said whats the best way to fit your scout rifle?

    Semi:

    Silencer
    NS/HS scope- this combined with the silencer fits the range and bullet drop. If you cant see it through the scope you dont need to be shooting at it anyway.
    Laser sight- Can be turned off with L. This reduces the CoF while hip firing an insane amount. In fact its one of the best attachments you can put on any gun. With this you can actually hip fire at 10-20m range and be effective.

    Auto:

    Exactly the same way. But i wouldnt use it.
  6. -----Nyx as a silenced weapon
    For shooting groups of unaware targets right now at anything up to 0-30m right now. I think the best weapon you can use is a silenced Nyx. This last patch the weapon was made to sound so silent it is surreal. That said it's a pretty specific situation that a Nyx is going to do you good.

    Before the last patch the weapon was loud even with a silencer and wasn't effective. With the change at least for the moment it feels a lot better. And at the risk that I might be tossing my opinion out there too soon I'd say it is a good and useable weapon at this point for that specific playstyle. Players may get used to hearing the sound and understanding that although it sounds distant even at close range it isn't.

    Understand though if you want to play at that range on an infiltrator you have to be smart. You can't expect to go room to room and win unless you're shooting newbies. You need to use IF scanner darts and your stealth (including your crotch/still stealth from time to time) to make sure you don't get flanked. And if someone catches wind of you, you turn it around on them and flank them instead. The almost perfect crotch stealth is important for flanking targets that are alert and searching for you. Use your sitting stealth watch them run past, shoot them in the back nothing to it. And for maneuvers like that in a populated battle field the more silent the weapon the better and right now Nyx is the most silent weapon you can pick up. The dmg sucks, and the accuracy when using it at it's full fire rate is very bad especially considering how little bullets you have, but it's still amazingly quiet. And it's not like you need a lot of dmg to shoot people in the back, you can do it with handguns just fine.

    So reality check quick. Lets be honest scout rifles are the closest you can get to the DPS of handguns they are the weakest cqc weapons in the game. These are especially close to handguns when you consider how good of hipfire the handguns have--they can be headshot machines. So you have to look at what the weapons do bring to the table and right now it's best silencer in the game, and a bit better dmg then you'd get with a handgun. So if you want to jump on for 3 hours and you don't feel like sniping and instead just want to shoot people in the back, maybe with an occasional shanking here and there infiltrator with a Nyx might be ok, it's better then nothing.

    ------Nyx as an unsilenced weapon
    Another popular way to use the Nyx is with a compensator and a lazer to make it a all around decent'ish weapon (still low ammo, low DPS). The lazer on a Nyx sets the weapon to a specific hipfire accuracy and this overwrites any minus to hipfire you receive from the compensator (according to posters on infl forum). That said in my personal opinion that doesn't bring enough to the table to want me to use that setup over a spectre. I've tried it, it wasn't my cup of tea. I found it to be a big pain to track targets because you have to really hammer Nyx rounds out quickly which means you don't have breathing room like you do with a spectre to realign your sights between shots and you leave a lot to chance with the kickback from sustained fire. You're giving away your position a lot with this setup if it's high noon on indar it might have a place but I still think it gets outclassed by spectres even at 25m despite the spectre's comically overzoomed scope at that range.

    I'm not the best shot, understand I'm not a competitive FPS player my spectre accuracy is about 40% and I fire liberally, my Nyx is 30%. Now consider how many bullets each of those weapons use to kill a target. Spectre can kill in 2-3 shots easy. A Nyx needs to hit way more and I have to fire it way faster to keep the DPS up which means I hit less. It's not nearly as effective as my spectre.
  7. To kill someone with the automatic: get behind them, wait until they are not moving laterally to you, empty clip into them. You need to be sneaky; unless you're an amazing shot, going head on with someone is not gonna work.
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  8. Artemis was my first SmedBucks purchase, up to about 120 hours of gameplay with the greater majority of my time spent in infiltrator with this rifle.

    It is in every way inferior to a standard assault rifle, but it kind of has to be. The whole point of being an infiltrator is to get the element of surprise. As long as you are shooting first and are scoped on with your reflex, if you get about 12 bullets on target you've got a kill. It's more of a flank or backstab mechanic, though of course, you can still win 1v1's if you aim for the head, or if you're quick and good at bunny hopping in absolute face to face situations.

    I dream of having a shotgun for infiltrator, but I know it would be too damn good. I often die on my infiltrator with no ammo, grenades, or mines, left on my person, which I think is a pretty positive indicator about the class.
  9. We had the Nova during beta. It was awesome. I've been hoping that they might reintroduce it, but with the latest patch returning the cloak engage/disengage noise to a reasonable volume (it was originally increased to make the shotgun less good) I think those days are gone for good :(

    N.B. you shouldn't die without ammo as Infiltrator: hack a terminal and resupply!
  10. The NC automatic scout rifle I've found to be pretty bad since it needs 10+ shots to kill a heavy assault who pops their shield, and the weapon only has a clip of 20.

    Bad bullet drop only to be made worse by the silencer since you play this class to be sneaky, low magazine size but high fire rate and low damage per bullet don't really leave me too inspired with the weapon.
  11. Only complaint I have with the automatic scout rifle is really ammo count. Getting the drop on someone/first shots fired is key with this thing. Recoil is fine with this gun, if you have trouble with the recoil just aim for the crotch to start, will just continue straight up. Foregrips on the auto also make a big difference in controlling the recoil. Can start aiming higher up. Not sure about hip firing though as I don't think i ever shoot from the hip.

    I don't have one, but a silencer probably wouldn't be a bad choice with this weapon either. Although the thing seems rather quiet to me at least without it. 2x reflex sight and foregrip seem to be the way to go, if you need a higher powered scope you are probably firing outside the effective range of the gun. yes you can still hit further out, but ammo with it is at a premium, best not to waste it. Also if you're gonna use it, I'd recommend a few ranks of nanoweave.
  12. I find the Stalker for NC working great. Good accuracy, good damage each shoot, fast fire rate. Only thing lacking is magazine size so you better aim for the head. Cant say anything of the other factions as I havent played them.
  13. This is very informative, and an accurate description of the comparisons between the auto and semi-auto scout rifles. I used the auto scout rifle on my TR (SAOS or w/e) and I only had to engage 4 total enemies to realize what a POS this gun is. It is NOT worth a blind purchase, instead test it and within five minutes I guarantee you won't even want to finish the 30 min test period.

    Instead, try the 10 bullet semi auto -- people shy away from the semi, but its damage per shot far outweighs its slower firing rate. This gun is much more effective, but never forget that as an infil you're not supposed to go head-to-head combat, but instead always initiate on someone from behind and catch them off guard. If It's clear you're losing the engagement, run around a corner and cloak and stand still, wait for the enemy to pass you then engage again from behind.

    I was having a ball sneaking into enemy towers and going CQC anti-sniper, hacking turrets and killing the guy in the turret when he gets kicked out of it confused and surprised. As an infil, choosing your engagements is paramount to your success, and creating frustration and chaos by hacking turrets and terminals is a huge part of the class.
  14. Exactly.

    I exclusively use the Shadow Semi Scout Rifle(NC). I have 1 bolt rifle kill out of 1500. The rest are mainly shadow kills. The times i have actually gone head to head with someone using this weapon can be counted with fingers. Its something you simply dont do.

    The shadow with a silencer is perfect for sneaking/flanking behind a group of enemies and shooting them in the head 1 by 1. It only takes 2 shots to the head to kill, and with the NS/HS scope you shouldnt miss. The cross hairs are really nice, and the mil dots work.
  15. I put a compensator on mine. Hopefully they remove it and refund my certs.
  16. I have both the semi auto and full auto scout rifles for TR, here is my opinion on them.

    Full Auto SAOS-20 (I think?)

    This weapon has all the great attachments that you want on a gun, but what it lacks is ammo, the 20 clip is terrible, and I mean terrible, you will not survive toe to toe against a heavy, unless he gives you time to reload or time to pull out your pistol. miss ANY shots, and you are likely to go down. The clip kills this gun, the kills I get with it have always been from 5 feet away, when they had their back turned, when sized up against the single shot pistol you can buy, the pistol actually does MORE damage. I can't suggest anyone buys this gun, it's dreadful.

    Semi Automatic (cannot remember the name for the life of me, starts with a K I know that much)

    Well this weapon is even worse than the full auto option. It's rate of fire is slow, very slow. Any enemy will have moved after the first bullet, you might have enough time to kill them, but you have to make the next 1 or 2 shots count, 1 if you get a second headshot, 2 if you can only hit body, and not a single round can miss. Against a heavy don't even bother, get close enough and knife/pistol combo them. The recoil down the scope is dreadful also.

    In recap do not buy these guns! I would say take LA if you want infiltration and blow up terminals with C4. You won't get the sentry guns, but you'll live long enough.

    Also to anyone who suggests that the infiltrator shouldn't be able to go toe to toe with anyone, tell that to my combat medic, who routinely puts down heavies with my T1 cycler.
    • Up x 1
  17. At the moment there is absolutely no reason to play CQC infiltrator over a LA, and the scout rifles (being terrible as our only CQC choice) are partly responsible.

    Lets compare the automatic SOAS-20 with the TRAC-5-S since they both cost the same.

    The TRAC-5-S carries twice as many rounds in both the clip and in total.

    The TRAC-5-S comes with a grenade launcher attachment with two grenades that explode on impact allowing you to 1-shot clusters of enemies.

    My question is, what exactly justifies infiltrators having such ****** CQC weapons in comparison to LA?

    You certainly can't snipe with the automatic rifle. Sure, you can cloak, but the cloak is inferior to the jetpack in every way. in CQC the cloak lets you get around opponents who aren't looking in your general direction. You are only going to surprise people who aren't looking at you. Any class can do that.

    With the jetpack you can surprise people from rooftops and trees, flank around mountains and buildings, fly over tanks and drop C4 on them, bypass chokepoints and infantry meatgrinders and be a pain in the *** in general. The jetpack lets you do things you can't even dream of doing with the cloak, and they get C4 and flashbangs on top of that.

    Why again, do CQC infiltrator have to put up with such ****** weapons? Heck, even shotguns with slug rounds are better than the semi-auto scout rifles.

    And Higsby says LA needs love...
    • Up x 1
  18. Soz... I'm having both NC Scout rifles. Moved around with em, 70% of time I spent in PS2 I played as infiltrator.

    Stalker (20 Ammo-auto)
    Clip size is really terrible. Temp of fire is considerable though, but you have to land about 13-15 rounds to kill an enemy. Same as for medics, or LA, but if u miss 4-5 rounds from your burst - you are guaranteed dead man. It allows you to fight with LA or engineers, but u have to be insane-accurate-gunna to do that. I use it with silencer, and it really allow you to kill some 1v1. But problem is that, when u get behind enemies position, you usually find them by groups. U cant kill more than one of them< cause of clip size. It's about 8 rounds to head, targets are moving forget about that. Effective range is 15-30 meters, afterwards u won't be able to hit necessary ammount of bullets into moving target torso.
    So... it's suitable in 1v1, when you are flanking... The question is what weapon doesn't in cases like that?

    Shadow (10 semi-auto)
    Not good at all. U have to put 4 bullets in target's body. It's said that rifle is for a long range - forget about that ****. Bullet is slow, temp of fire is low, so it's impossible to kill anyone with that rifle in the distance more of 30 meters, because in 4 of 5 cases your target will machinegun u back with ease. This rifle is useless with all scopes, providing u more than x2 zoom, beacuse recoil is too high, and bullet speed and ballistics are awful. This rifle should have much more bullet speed and less recoil. It feels like you are trying to snipe a fly with a chewed paper ball from the pen ><. I've been using compensator, 7 kinds of optics and it is still usable only with iron/reflex/ sights or thermal-HV.
    The only way to use this gun is to put a silencer on it, and try to head people from back. Yep.. it is somehow useful, but when i just put a silencer on a heavy's 75 round machinegun... u know, I've been MUCH more effective.
    Why you SHOULD NOT BUY IT:.. NC pistol REBEL is able to do exactly same thing: 4 rounds torso/ 2 head are lethal, BUT u have no recoil at all! And almost the same 8 ammo instead of 10. And at the last u have knife, which is capable to ape anyone with 2 hits.

    What do you lose, when you buy a scout rifle? Range of course. When u are sniping u are several times more destructive. U have about 3-4 times more kills per lifespan, and about the double amount advantage in kills per minute if u are in good position. You still have a knife and a pistol to infiltrate... so you lose more than gain with this buying.

    Scout rifles are EXTREMELY UNDERPOWERED at the moment. I got a decent amount of kills using them, but they are not suitable for a long range at all, and totally disadvantageous in CQC for sure. Use a handgun for it, it literally the same weapon, just having no optics on it... And wait for a patch.
    If you don't believe me, just try play with infi using handgun only for an hour. It feels totally same in any PVP. But you will still have your sniper rifle with you )

    Good luck/ Wait for a patch.
    • Up x 1
  19. I wouldn't be so irked about my stalker's tendency to just wave photons in the general direction of enemies, BUT when they turn around while I'm in the process of killing them, subsequently pwning me, I wonder why the hell I bought the damn thing considering 1x knife swipe and two pistol rounds would've been a guaranteed kill.
  20. Yeah, I can't say I've been very satisfied with my purchase of the nyx. If anything I'd be more inclined to say the opposite, as now I feel chained to this broken playstyle. :(

    I just dearly hope some patching is coming our way. I'd love to hear a developer or someone from SOE comment on the state of the infiltrator, and if there is any kind of vision or idea to it all. The semi-auto scout rifle just feels plain pointless. As ArielFox says, if the thing is only good for shooting someone in the back, then what's the point? A pistol does that just fine.

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