SMG Analysis

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Rigsta, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. SMG Analysis

    I recently got the Auraxium medal for the Sirius and decided to give the Eridani another shot. I always doubted the people who say the Sirius is a straight upgrade, SOE wouldn't do that right? It has a faster TTK or something right?

    Let's look at the specifics. I made a spreadsheet to compare the best possible TTK of each SMG; that means firing from within max damage range, standing still, and not missing a shot. The attachments are personal preference of course - “your mileage may vary” as it were - but they're what I feel bring out the best performance for each gun.

    TR

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    1st gen: SMG-46 Armistice

    Optional/preference: 1x reflex, Suppressor.
    Rail: Forward Grip/Extended Magazine.
    Ammo: Soft-point ammo.

    Pros:
    • Blistering RoF.
    • Best SMG TTK across all empires.
    Cons:
    • Vicious left-right bounce.
    • Empties the 30-round magazine rather quickly.
    • Relatively long reload time considering the time-to-empty.
    Comments: The Armistice is a beast of a CQ weapon but the left-right bounce limits its effective range to 25m-30m with the forward grip. The TTK, RoF and the rate at which it empties the magazine makes for a high-risk, high-reward weapon but with good aim, discipline and bursting it's possible to get 2 kills per reload. Extended Magazines are a good choice if you can restrict yourself to a range where the recoil won't matter, just remember that it can start affecting your TTK at as little as 20m.

    2nd gen: PDW-16 Hailstorm

    Optional/preference: 1x reflex, Suppressor.
    Rail: Forward Grip.
    Ammo: Soft-point ammo.

    Pros:
    • Whopping 60-round magazine!
    • Slightly faster reload than the NC and VS high-capacity SMGs.
    Cons:
    • Average TTK.
    • Lowest projectile velocity of all SMGs at 335m/s.
    Comments: Where the Armistice does one thing extremely well - CQ TTK - the Hailstorm sacrifices a little TTK for the biggest SMG magazine across all empires while retaining the same reload speed as the Armistice. It also has roughly the same accuracy as the Armistice.

    TR SMG Analysis: Choosing between your SMGs is a straightforward choice between the best TTK available and the versatility and multi-kill potential of the largest magazine available. This is the very model of weapon balance in my opinion – each has its own advantages but neither can be judged to be the obvious choice for all situations. In short you have two great SMGs, congrats!

    NC

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    1st gen: AF-4 Cyclone

    Optional/preference: 1x reflex, Suppressor.
    Rail: Extended Magazine.
    Ammo: Soft-point ammo.

    Pros:
    • Very stable compared to other SMGs.
    • Highest damage-per-hit of all the SMGs.
    • Fast 1.75s “short” reload time, comparable to most pistols.
    • Slightly longer minimum-damage range.
    Cons:
    • Low RoF (offset by high damage per hit).
    • 25-round magazine (somewhat offset by low RoF).
    Comments: I expected to hate this gun since low RoF and a small magazine is usually a bad thing in CQ situations. Instead I found it to have a competitive TTK and remarkable stability, peppering targets at 30-40m easily without any need for a forward grip. This makes the extended magazine a no-brainer, and boy do those 10 extra rounds go a long way when they're hitting for 167 damage each.

    Granted though, moving targets will still present a problem at range due to the low projectile velocity common to all SMGs.

    All in all it's a solid SMG that fits the NC's weapon philosophy like a glove.

    2nd gen: Blitz GD-10

    Optional/preference: 1x reflex, Suppressor.
    Rail: Forward Grip.
    Ammo: Soft-point ammo.

    Pros:
    • High RoF.
    • 50-round magazine.
    • Near-identical TTK to the Blitz.
    Cons:
    • Greater left-right bounce limits its effectiveness at range compared to the Cyclone.
    • 2.5s short/3.5s long reload time is fairly hefty for an SMG.
    Comments: With a near-identical TTK to the Cyclone, the Blitz simply trades effective range for magazine size. Hitting targets at 30m is still relatively easy but it's rather random beyond that.

    NC SMG Analysis: Since attempting to kill anything at 40m with an SMG is usually a case of “well it's better than a pistol”, for me the choice between the NC SMGs is one of play style and preference. The differing left-right bounce is a factor that should be considered if you plan to use an advanced laser sight, however.

    As a bonus, both NC SMGs are near-as-makes-no-difference silent with a suppressor attached.

    VS

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    1st gen: Eridani SX5

    Optional/preference: 1x reflex, Suppressor.
    Rail: Extended Magazine.
    Ammo: Soft-point ammo.

    Pros:
    • Looks fantastic. Sleek and compact with groovy firing & reload animations, not to mention light reflections and thecolouring without camo applied. It's absolutely my favourite gun model.
    • Fast 1.74s “short” reload time, comparable to most pistols.
    Cons:
    • Rather random amounts of left-right bounce.
    • Drains its 25-round magazine quickly.
    • The only thing it has over the Sirius is the reload speed.
    Comments: The best thing I can say about the Eridani – aside from its looks – is that it can kill things and has no projectile drop. But then that's hardly unique, is it? More below.

    2nd gen: Sirius SX12

    Optional/preference: 1x reflex, Suppressor.
    Rail: Forward Grip.
    Ammo: Soft-point ammo.

    Pros:
    • 50-round magazine.
    • Highest projectile velocity of all SMGs at 400m/s = easier to hit moving targets.
    • Same or better TTK than the Eridani in almost every situation.
    Cons:
    • Silly, bulky, OTT weapon model doesn't look anything like an SMG. Not even an alien one.
    • Left-right bounce is an issue beyond 20m without the forward grip.
    Comments: Let's just bullet-point that again.
    • Twice the magazine size of the Eridani.
    • Just as accurate by default.
    • MORE accurate with an advanced laser sight or forward grip attached.
    • Faster projectiles = less misses.
    • Identical or better TTK against most targets.

    VS SMG analysis: Sirius wins. Flawless victory.

    Lastly, the NS-7 PDW is still on the PTS. Its party trick is that it trades raw damage output for longer max & min damage ranges, making it the long-range SMG. It generally has the worst TTK within max damage range – though not by a lot – and has reasonable left-right bounce especially with the forward grip. It also has a really neat reload animation where the stock opens up and you replace the magazine in there, and as with all NS infantry weapons if you buy it with SC you'll get it for all your characters.

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    In summary: The TR have the best of the SMG world with a choice of guns for different situations and play-styles. The NC are in second place with a choice of gun for different play-styles and boast the most accurate SMG, the Cyclone. And the VS are bringing up the rear with a choice between the competitive Sirius and the sub-par Eridani.

    And now: Why the Eridani fails.

    Firstly, let's look at shots-to-kill, STK. Compared to the Armistice, Hailstorm, Blitz and Sirius, the Eridani requires onlyone less bullet to kill in most situations, and when headshotting or finishing with the knife it needs the same number of bullets to kill. However, it fires 95-146RPM slower than those SMGs.

    This means that it has no TTK advantage over the Sirius (which has twice the magazine size). It actually performs worse than the Sirius when head-shotting or knifing, and in fact shares the worst headshot TTK with the NS-7 PDW.

    The Armistice makes up for its small magazine with a brutal RoF and the best SMG TTK. This is a suitable trade-off for a quickly-drained magazine.

    The Cyclone may only have a 25/35-round magazine like the Eridani, but it drains it slower and has marvellous accuracy, enough so that the extended magazine can be attached without loss of overall performance. This means that its magazine can be used to greater effect than the Eridani.

    Now my view may be coloured by my overall dislike of the Eridani, but its left-right bounce feels more random than any other SMG – even the Armistice. Sometimes it stays dead centre, sometimes it simply draws the target's outline on the wall behind them. Again, this might just be me.

    To put it bluntly, the Eridani simply has no outstanding feature to make up for its small magazine.

    SOE, I love the looks of the Eridani and dearly wish for a reason to equip it instead of the Sirius. Frankly I'm at a loss as to how it should be done without being OP but some inspiration can be drawn from the TR and NC examples.


    Notes/pre-emptive FAQ:

    Why a forward grip? I just find it works better for me than the advanced laser sight (ALS). I only tend to hipfire at such close range that the CoF is already more or less a non-issue, and when I do have the ALS equipped I don't the longer effective hipfire range all that impressive because the SMGs' left-right bounce would make me miss anyway.

    Why even bother with 30-40m targets? I believe that the best weapon for the situation is the one I'm carrying at the time, and it's up to me to either make it work or think of an alternative. There are always times when you have to use a weapon outside its comfort zone.

    I'm still not sure which SMG to get. Try both of them in VR, trial both of them in a bio-lab fight and make your choice based on which one feels better for you. If you're still not sure, I'd say get the one with the large magazine regardless of empire. They're more forgiving, less reliant on attachments, and short/CQ-range fights tend to be chaotic so having lots of bullets to burn through before needing to reload is a big advantage.


    My spreadsheet can be viewed on google docs HERE (HTML) and HERE (Google Sheets).

    I'd be very interested to hear everyone else's opinion on this subject - have I missed something?
    • Up x 14
  2. Even though I'm not well versed in the world of SMG's the level of time of detail you spent to make this a good read was refreshing. Posting charts and links to spreadsheets also helps to cut back on trolling and makes the thread into a debate about numbers and the tradeoffs they bring rather than a debate on pure opinions. +1:)
  3. Using SMG's with forward grip... what a shame!
    It's like hip firing with a sniper rifle. o_O

    SMGs are maide for hip firing with adv. laser sight.

    Don't use SMG's if you don't hip. Also others standards weapons are for the most of them more designed for 20-30m fight than smg that are just made for CQC/Close range (0-15m).

    About wich SMGs getting, 2nd generation have more damages by mag but less DPS than "stadards" (AR/Carabines/LMGs) CQC weapons. They also are less effective at medium range.
    1st gen SMG's have betters TTK, but smaller mags.
    It mainly depends of the gameplay.

    To conclude, who cares of SMGs? Shotguns and standards weapons are cheaper & better in most of case. It's just useful for infiltrators, the least played class, and most of them are using snipers rifle.
    • Up x 1


  4. Eridani Magazine Size So Small! So Small!

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  5. Sirius is the best SMG hands down.
    Blitz is good.

    TR SMG are garbage, they have no accuracy, the PDW sprays all over the place when compared to the Sirius.

    NS SMG TTK is to long in CQC, if your fighting a guy with a sirius you will die to it every time.

    If you are shooting from less than 8m, as you should be with a SMG, then Sirius is the best of all of them.
    • Up x 1
  6. Believe it or not, I actually like using the Eridani, though I agree with all of the points above. I don't even run with an extended magazine, using the advanced laser instead. So far, it's worked extremely well for me, though I'm at a loss to explain why. I do have both weapons and have used them extensively, obtaining an Auraxium medal with both.
    • Up x 2
  7. Wooooooossshh.

    Here, I'll help.

    That's something in the region of 1150 kills, FYI. And I have 300-odd with the Eridani.
    I know my SMGs, thank you. Before criticizing my findings, you might want to try getting more than 0 kills with an SMG.


    You're not the only person I've heard say that. I certainly won't argue with you if you say you've made it work for you, in fact I'd like to know the secret to success with the Eridani :)
  8. I don't understand this analogy since an SMG without a laser still hipfires as good, or better, as CQC carbines or assault rifles, while a sniper rifle is bad at hipfire no matter what you do.

    If you have a gun like the Sirius that is extremely controllable, the grip is a solid choice to give you something to work with in the 20-30 meter range.

    That's like telling people not to run exmags on a Cyclone because it's a hipfire weapon and hipfire weapons have to have a laser. Yes, it is. No, it doesn't need the laser to BE a hipfire weapon, that comes from the fact that its shot bloom is the same for hipfire as for ADS.

    Non-SMGs produce twice the aim bloom per shot when hipfiring compared to ADS. Even if a lasered carbine has as tight a cone as a SMG with exmags or grip, the SMG will hipfire more accurately, for longer bursts, because of the low shot bloom.

    It's all personal preference. The base stats carry the gun so well, you basically can't turn an SMG bad.

    Edit: To respond to the original poster, I also wouldn't mind giving the Eridani...I don't know what. Less wobble or higher velocity? Not sure. I prefer Hailstorm for the huge mag and Cyclone for the faction flavor of having a 167 dmg SMG.
    • Up x 2

  9. I too, have both weapons and I like the Eridani better. (actually, I like them both equally, different situations for different guns).
    It's a longer range SMG. I love the reload speed too.
    Though, I like them both, I don't think one is better than the other.

    Sirius for short range, only hip shoot (for me - with laser. I haven't tried forward grip)..

    Eridani for more accurate close (hip shoot) and slightly longer range with ability to use iron sights. (I use extended magazine due to the fact that it has too few ammo per magazine) I have them both to nearly 1000 kills each.

    I only use them with my infiltrator, though lately, I haven't really played them much in the past couple of months since I had a 21 day break until population increased and using vehicles much more often since I used to be anti vehicle and mostly infantry..
  10. They both have the same accuracy in both hipfire and ADS :) They have different recoil patterns and the Sirius' CoF blooms out faster due to its faster RoF.

    EDIT: That just might be the thing the Eridani does better than the Sirius... can't say I've noticed it in-game but I'll be looking for it the next time I play.

    My first ~700 Sirius kills were with the advanced laser sight. I'll probably switch between rail attachments a bit, but for now I'm really enjoying using the forward grip.
  11. Well the 1st gen SMG's were actually quite good when they were all that was there. Then they introduced the 2nd gen SMG's and their biggest advantage over the 1st gen was the fact that they had 100% more reserve ammo. The Eridani, for example was a 25/125 SMG while the Sirius was a 50/250 SMG. So while the Eridani the same number of magazines, it was outclassed by the Sirius which carried a LOT more ammo and potential kills per mag.

    They fixed it in the next GU after the 2nd gen SMG's were released. They drastically increased the Eridani, so that it at least had a chance against the Sirius.


    Of course if you consider the fact that the Sirius can do more kills per mag without an extended mag, you find that it's better because you can get the extra two kills WHILE having the advanced laser.

    All the same, I am on my Sirius only because I medaled the Eridani a LONG time ago. Though I haven't really used either one all that much since I use my MAX more in the Biolabs and I run a Serpent at towers.
    • Up x 1

  12. For me, it's more accurate since it shoots slower. The bloom is less per second.
    I'll certainly try it out in the VR training. It may make the Sirius better for me for ADS..

    For me, the Sirius just sucks with ADS(while using lasers) and certain situation I wish I had the Eridani with me. That's why I like the Eridani, it gives me bothoptions.


    That was the reason I got the Sirius, it had a lot more ammo. Since they increased the Eridani, I started using that again and it's not bad. I mean, there could be some improvement for it. Perhaps, it is all in my head, I just want to like it since I bought it..

    As for the Serpent.. I wish I hurry and get that to 1149 kills so I can go back to the Solstice..
    Though, lately, I rarely play, but when I do, I play vehicles mostly now... Mostly to kill other vehicles. :D
  13. I have mixed feelings about this post, but +1 for making a substantive post none the less.
    • Up x 1
  14. You are 100% right about the eridani. It's just sub-par compared to every other SMG in the game.

    With that said if you are a halfway decent infiltrator it's still a devastating weapon. Ever since I started running SMG infil extensively a 3 K/D for the day is kind of low. The playstyle just lends itself super well to kill streaks if you keep moving and have decent reflexes.

    The TR are super lucky. I could do so much work with a 40 round magazine and an 896 RPM.

    I just finished up my medal for it tonight in preperation for the NS SMG but in the meantime I will be using the Sirius.
  15. This confirms analysis i did back when they released them. The eridani could stand to gain a tiny bit more accuracy to make it an ADS SMG with the Eirius being a hip firer. The quick reload and slightly better accuracy would then be a good trade off.

  16. LMFAO, bringing up your own states to validate an argument. Then attacking the person instead of the argument. If only you had left those parts out in your response. Well I am going to echo what they said, using forward grip on a SMG is like hip firing with a sniper rifle.

    P.S. I have more kills on one SMG than you do combined.
  17. I would never put a foregrip on an SMG but I can see the logic. You still have a weapon with the best hipfire stats in the game. And slightly better accuracy. Speaking of stats I doubt mine would be any worse had I used a grip rather then a laser.

    That said you put extended mags on first gen SMGs and advanced laser on second gen. With the upcoming NS SMG it looks like the decision may be a little bit more difficult.
  18. Tbh I'd trust someone whos used an smg vs someone who hasnt.

    ALS for hipfire is good. It's what I do, but seeing as SMGs have 0.75 ADS mult, they are valid to ADS with in CQC, and if you're good at aiming for heads it's going to help. Though obviously SMGs aren't marksman weapons.
  19. Actually, the Sirius and the Blitz are almost the exact same SMG, except the Sirius has no bullet drop. I'd like to see the Cyclone have higher minimum damage perhaps (100 minimum damage up to 125 would be nice), while the Eridani should get a ROF buff to 800 RPM.
  20. I get that, but here is something for you to ponder. How many gold medalist winner have coaches who have got gold medals themselves.

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