Tank Mines

Discussion in 'Vehicle Discussion' started by Navry, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. I remember back in Beta that after the advent of C4, it wasn't too long before light assault troopers were jetpacking around dropping fun little packages that tore through any armor or foot mobiles around. The matter was addressed, of course, and the game compensated. I hoped it was the last I would see of that. Apparently I was wrong.

    Lately, I've found the same strategy being used again, but with Tank Mines. An inclusion I initially lauded, but now am concerned for the exploitation of. On several occasions, a Light Assault trooper has vaulted over high cover to land on or around a parked Sunderer. They were cut down quickly in most instances, of course, but never before they managed to throw a mine. A mine which would destroy Sunderers even at full repair, instantly.

    I understand that the mines need to be effective, and that there is a mine guard feature, but in the case of Sunderer especially, that doesn't appear enough. The Sunderer has an extremely high number of upgrade options beyond the standard defenses of the other vehicles, making the decision to focus on mines even more costly to other strategies. Also, the cost of the mines does not seem to offset the capability with which they destroy even well defended and supported vehicles.

    I'd offer that instead of just complaining about the damage, that perhaps some extra mechanism be put in place to prevent such cheap exploitation. Perhaps add a timer to their activation, forcing them to be preparatory measures only. In addition, it might be worthwhile to make explosives that are shot detonate with less force than those properly activated.

    Anyone else have comment on this?
    • Up x 1
  2. Light Assault don't have Anti-Tank Mines.

    • Up x 6
  3. Than it was someone. It was a frequent occurrence, so I apologize if I was a little too concerned with killing the saboteurs and dodging fire and explosives to double-check the class of my opponents. Never mind the logical fallacy that single mistaken piece of information negates every other fact.
    • Up x 1
  4. Only engineers can take tank mines. Upgraded sunderers take 3 mines to kill, possibly 4 with maxed mineguard. It takes over 2 seconds to place the mines. If an engineer got into melee range of your well defended well supported sunderer then it was clearly not well defended.
    • Up x 14
  5. Only problem with tank mines ATM is how you can just throw them on top of a stationary vehicle to kill it. A vehicle should have to move for the mines to detonate, even if not running them over, just proximity movement. A stationary Sunderer that's deployed shouldn't be capable of having people fly up in ESF, jump out and kamikazi it with tank mines.
  6. There should be a way for tanks to detect mines as they are too hard to see (even by infantry) so it can effectively play the role of area-denial. Oh and they shouldn't trigger on stationary targets (Mines atm are the new C4 vs deployed Sunderers) Otherwise the damage is fine.

    I'd say the tally of mines needed to kill a Sunderer is 1 less than that. 2 mines did the job 99% of the time for me.
    • Up x 1
  7. I just destroyed 5 heavily guarded sunderers in about 30 minutes at Amp Station Mattherson doing nothing but mine suicide runs. Enemy has very little if any shot at stopping this tactic. Gave a Prowler the drop as well using the exact same tactic (he just wasn't paying attention ;)) .

    1) It didn't matter because the enemy kept rolling these Sunderers right off the production line making it impossible to defend Amp.

    2) It is virtually impossible to destroy these Sunderers any other way than a liberator and the Sundy drivers know it. They drive right into the base, park, and just chill. They spawn troops too quickly to take them out with any kind of ground force and engis can repair through any HAs who are stupid enough to think they can hurt it. Its just becoming an awful and pointless experience trying to play defense.

    - Someone mentioned requiring Sunderers to be purchased at specific bases like MBTs. I'm starting to agree.

    - Either that or nerf these ridiculous Sunderers down to MBT defensive levels. Possibly a bit higher. I'm not hating on Sunderers (thats my favorite vehicle to drive), but its a bit absurd the beating they can take. If not that then when they deploy into an AMS the two sides where the armor opens up revealing terminals should be a weak spot that way when they are in troop transport mode they can still be beasty and give their 12 occupants much needed defense, but when deployed they are a killable.

    Either way something has to be done. The mine tactic was fun as first, but now its boring. The fact that it is becoming a required tactic to have any shot at defending is beyond tiresome. Nerf the Sundy and turn these anti-tank mines into traditional drop in the road wait for a vehicle as opposed to suicide runs.
    • Up x 3
  8. All this whining about tank mines are telling me that they are starting to work as intended.
    • Up x 10
  9. A mobile Sundy can be rather well beaten down. I am inclined to agree, however, that a deployed Sunderer does have few natural predators, only competitors. In this light, my burning resentment of air craft is... mediated. Balance is always something that needs maintenance, after all.

    Making the redeploy terminals a weak spot is an intriguing option.
    • Up x 1
  10. This, so much this.
    • Up x 1
  11. I'm inclined to disagree.
    No whining, first off. Second, I have absolutely no qualms about tank mines working as intended. When I drove into an AMP station in my Magrider and promptly exploded due to a mine, I was startled, sure. I was also a bit happy. That meant another piece of the system worked, that some strategy could be used.

    The abuse of tank mines to auto-kill my squad's Sunderers while parked is less so heartening.
    • Up x 1
  12. Most of what you said has been addressed already. On top of that, I checked the front three pages prior to posting and saw no Tank Mine threads, which is why I opened this one.

    One thing I will elaborate on, is the mine guard upgrade. It is a useful consideration- but it is one among many. One cannot expect any given Sunderer to have it, nor should they have to. Upgrades take a great many certs, and not everyone is rolling in them. Game balance and correction of misuse requires looking at both vanilla and upgraded specimens. Saying "there is an upgrade for that" works when things are running as intended, not so much when it is trying to handwave shenanigans.

    Oh, and the misplaced assumption that I died was nice. I rarely ended up caught in the blast, which negates my ability to check the death screen. Thus my own mistaken assumption.
    • Up x 1
  13. This just happened to me, I barely heard the flash the engy drove up in before i hopped in the sundy and then instant death.

    I don't know that the power needs to be decreased, but these should have a long timer to place.
  14. I have AT mines and they're a badly designed item. You'd expect mines to be an area denial tool, but they're not, because you can only have two down at a time and you always put them in the same spot so that they're instantly deadly. They can be deployed under vehicles and usually the two mines will kill any ground vehicle, though occasionally (but rarely) a Sunderer survives; I'm not sure if these are just people who randomly have the first rank mineguard equipped or what. Maybe it's Blockade Armour that lets them survive.

    Because you can't deny areas with them, they're pretty much a random kill acquisition item (or C4 substitute) that feels cheap when you use it and isn't fun at all when you get killed by it. The game would be better for it if they acted a bit more like the Planetside mines - being able to place a lot of them, but not on top of each other, and doing less damage each.

    It's important for items in the game to be important to play against, not just play with. Because mines are so rare, so hard to spot and instantly lethal they don't really engender fun or interesting gameplay.
    • Up x 6
  15. Then defend it! If yo dont want to defend then cert into mineguard, lazyness comes with a (cert) price! Its the most valuable veichle ingame capable of $hitting out an army and you dont want to defend it? :D

    Whos fault is that?

    Here check my video, and tell me how many people were defending their veichles?

    AT Mines hard counter ignorance.

    • Up x 2

  16. Or you know..

    You could like -gasp- protect your sunderers instead of crying about this if you dont want to cert into mineguard :D

    I know its far fetched and all, and defies logic..

    /sarcasm off
    • Up x 2
  17. Armor complaining about area of denial? And from infrantry? That's rich. If anything, engineers need even more anti-tank mines to try and and at least kill one or two of the dozens of tanks that endlessly spawn camp.
    • Up x 3
  18. Qaz

    i think the point was that there is no defense against suicide mining, and i tend to agree. AT mines are, technically, shaped charges that explode upwards. hence the mineguard below the tank. vehicles instantly explode when they drive over a mine because it attacks the unarmoured bottom-side.

    thus, throwing a mine on top of a tank should only do minimal damage, if any at all (mine is not c4). ideally, mines should be mines, i.e., they need to be deployed on the ground and only activate when a vehicle moves over them.
    • Up x 2
  19. Placing a AT mine (or AP one for that matter) should start a charge time of 30 seconds or something before it arms. That one change would resolve any issues with these things without having to change anything else.
  20. I believe you missed the point. While Brandmon is a tad ambiguous, I think it's been a consensus that AT Mines as area of denial would be an excellent addition to the game. They see little use currently in that manner, unfortunately, but increasing their availability even the slightest bit too much may see a decided over saturation.

    As far as defending the Sunderer-
    Some people may not adequately defend theirs by mistake. Other might not by lack of personnel. Others might just have left a painful opportunity open in an otherwise stalwart defensive line. Should such mistakes be paid for, and such opportunities exploited? Absolutely. Should the punishment be instantaneous destruction? Absolutely not.
    When a Sunderer in heavy cover with dozens of men around it is taken out by a single soldier who jumped off the higher cliff in a moment, there is a problem beyond the situation. When an APC is sneaked upon and eliminated by a lone engineer, in a moment, unnoticed as most eyes were focused on the encroaching enemy pilots, there is a problem beyond the current situation. When a flash can move up through a line long enough, oh so barely long enough, to plant the certain destruction of the cornerstone of an assault, there is a problem beyond the current situation.

    The implications that my complaints are founded entirely on ignorance, objective personal failure, or simple short-minded frustration are unwarranted and incorrect. I'd ask that you consider the matter from outside the gratification of power to a consideration of the game as a whole. From what I've seen, AT Mines are damaging the Planetside 2 experience more than enriching it. If you can't respond in a reasonable manner, please don't at all.
    • Up x 2

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