Unscheduled - Outfit Progression

Discussion in 'Roadmap' started by JGood, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. JGood Developer

    • We'd like to add growth and progression to Outfits.
    • One of the ideas we have for doing this is to allow players to contribute points to their Outfit by earning experience, and when enough points are accrued, the Outfit will earn a rank.
      • At each rank, the Outfit Leader can select a benefit/perk/specialization that will affect everyone in the outfit.
      • What these benefits might be is still a topic of discussion, so toss us any ideas you have.
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  • Please make outfits like certs. You can always keep earning points to spend and you swap out benefits. So if the leader makes a misstep, they just grind out more outfit points.
    • Up x 122
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    • That's a great idea, however we need to be careful to make sure zergfits aren't the only ones really benefiting due to their size.
      • Up x 123
      • Perhaps ratio the points:members to show elites instead of zerg noobs get benefits.
        • Up x 100
        • I second this.
          • Up x 14
        • Yes i would love an outfit stats in game thing that lets me know who the most active people are, who contribute the most and so on.

          I would love that, we need more platoon and outfit management for sure.
          • Up x 4
        • If you mean that the elites of the outfits get it and the noobies only get a reduced version, don't get it at all etc. then I third this!
        • That leads some newer players that like there outfit at a fork in the road leave there friends for an outfit that can get more bonuses.
          or stick with the outfit they like and not be as successful.
          Plus you would end up with elite outfits (no offence there good dudes) like Future Crew (connery) pulling even more dickish and abusive moves with the bonuses that they would get.
          I vote that all outfits get the same margins between ranks.
          Making smaller outfits able to rank up quickly will destroy larger outfits, make them stop recruting, outfit leaders making them farm EXP and abusing their power leading to leadership collapsing, orginized/simi orginized fights with large numbers break down and now look at that were COD with outfits that could care less about noobes other peoples experience
          • Up x 2
      • a
        It could work like this: price of Outfit Benefit = say 100outfitXP * # of members in outfit

        So, if you wanted to cert a Outfit Benefit such as a second spawn beacon it would cost 1000outfitXP for a outfit of 10 and 10000outfitXP for a outfit of 100.
        • Up x 5
        • That could back fire, what if a small becomes large and the more people they have the large the price goes up...

          I think you are on the right track, BUT the PRICES should all be the same.

          It is the amount you can attain that should be dependent on player count. for example each player has a weekly cap, small outfits have higher caps per individual, and larger outfits would have a lower cap, meaning no matter how hard you try, you could only get so much xp for your outfit per week or day, (Kind of like WoW)

          OR give the outfits a weekly or daily xp cap (exactly like WoW) Which will make hardcore progression just about even between the important outfits. BUT

          The REWARDS AND PERKS is what would define them, not their progression. I personally think major emphasis should be put into the perks and rewards that way an outfit can specialize in certain things for their unique purpose.
          • Up x 5
        • Well, then I could just kick a bunch of people out of the outfit when I want to buy something.
          • Up x 1
          • then the points that outfit member contributed would be subtracted from the outfit points
            • Up x 4

        • I would propose to use figure calculated on average online players during the hour/day/week in outfit, because I think there are plenty of outfits with 200+ members, where online is only around 40-50 players.
          • Up x 2
      • Yes, the best way is too have different categories i think.

        Clearly some benefits should be a direct benefit to smaller squad play but also benefit platoons

        Like "faster spam beacon deploy" Ya that would help in a strike team squad but platoons would want the other option which would be 'platoon leader hot drop"

        See what im saying, perhaps they force you to choose between certain ones, or they make it so you have to prioritize what you need more.

        If they organize the benefits and make them diverse for small and large outfits. It will be great.

        Clearly we can compare this to WoW, and how they did those guild things. The one thing WoW did wrong is that most guild perks (mainly the higher up ones) were very raid oriented. As long as it stays even small and large outfits but also feel like you are getting better benefits with each rank it should do great.

        TLDR
        Like i said easiest solution, give benefits that reflect small and large combat equally or allow us to chose between different options (like certs). Don't make it so zergfits are the only ones who benefit; nor should you let the small elite outfits benefit most either.
        • Up x 2
    • I'd prefer a system that didn't just favour enormous outfits, which your suggestion would support. IMO it'd be better to have caps on what you can 'buy', and an easy and free "re-cert" option once a month (or whatever). Bigger outfits would still get there quicker, but they wouldn't have a permanent advantage over smaller ones.
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  • Easy.. take PS1 as your guide.

    level 1 Waypoints: the outfit can earn upwards of 3 extra REAL waypoints so we can organize a platoon better. We've made it to that level without them (with great pain) and have earned the right for them.

    level 2 Crayons: Let outfits that have reached this level have access to draw on the map for organization purposes because we do use them and really miss them for multi squad ops, armor/air/inf.

    just off the top of my head. Those things are definite advantages but not so much that they have any real overpowering effect on another outfit IMO.

    other things would be various discounts on a particular style of play. a solid 10% off armor, air, etc they could focus on ONE of the three resources that they deem their outfit plays a majority of the time. Also we could perhaps have a 'super' station cash to buy one individual specialized weapon (like annihilator all my guys are required to have) for every member of the outfit.

    And outfit owned bases of course.
    • Up x 106
    • Waypoints and map Crayons seem like things that should be added to the platoon interface, not the outfit. Once you have multiple platoons in your outfit that could get confusing. This could be mitigated if those features were added to both the platoon and outfit, and could be individually toggled by the player.
      • Up x 27
      • Maybe just have different colors for different platoons in your outfit :D
        • Up x 10
      • This is a great idea that wouldn't benefit a large outfit over a smaller one. It would just provide better tools for leaders to perform their roles. This concept should be a layered approach for squad through outfit. e.g. and outfit commander could use several colors to plan and give orders for platoons. This would be achieved by selecting a color for a platoon which associates it with that color. So my Alpha platoon would be green, when I draw a green path and plan, only the alpha platoon leader would see that on their map. This would cascade down so the same would go for platoon leaders. They could associate squads with selectable colors and could draw on the map to direct their individual squads and only the corresponding squad leader would see that on their map. Then they would issue way points as they do now. This would keep it from getting cluttered at any given hierarchy level

        Another perk that would be beneficial in this same manner would be to have a squad and platoon unit view that adaptively shows their cumulative strengths and weaknesses. So as a platoon leader I can select a squad and see that it is full of players that are spec'd as air support, or if those twelve players have better certs for tanks and Sunderrers. Or maybe they are a bunch of new players that don't have any vehicle certs yet, and I should consider moving them around so they are spread through the four squads. This would scale up to outfit commanders who could see a platoon as a unit and would be provided aggregate data on the players in that platoon. Something like progress bars for Air, Ground, Infantry, etc would allow commanders to see if their platoons are out of balance. This system could also take into account all of the certs available to each of the players, and provide a multi-shaded meter bar, that shows the potential of any given bar based on what the players could equip rather than what they currently have equipped. You may have a group of players that have decent certs for both tanks and air ships, and you need ground forces at the moment and can see that the solid part of the bar for tanks is showing you have a few people with tanks but there is a higher amount that is "available" indicated by a lighter shaded bar. You could then ask that squad to spawn tanks for the additional ground support you need.
        • Up x 9
      • agreed it should be part of an unlock from being a good squad/platoon leader and only be visible by your current platoon/squad
    • really like the drawing on maps, the resource bonus would work too , i like to see a perk, say a % reduction to air/vechile/inf and a Sc Savings token to reduce 1 item by a % for a week then it would be refunded to pick another item, each level the outfit hits

      another perk could be the carrier we all have seen, targeted platoon deploys were the PL can force deploy any were on the map every so often, if orbital strikes come out here is where they should go, or extending the repair/med gun range.

      all the perks should be able to have permissions assigned to them .... dont need the new guy blowing up the platoon by accident >.>
      • Up x 2
  • This was one of your really good ideas long ago that fell by the wayside. Would like to see this bumped way up. Should provide true distinction like you said it would, an air specce'ed outfit should be identifiable as an air specc'ed outfit, armor and infantry should stand out as member of an outfit that has sunk some serious investment into those playstyles.
    • Up x 8
    • Definitely - and if these perks applied to new outfit members, too (not just those that have been along for the ride), that would be a great way for outfits to quickly get new members up to speed.
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      • For that we'd need to disallow leaving the outfit because then one can join the outfit, gain the reward perk(s) and leave, then hop to another outfit. Alternatively they can only 'equip' the perk when they're in said outfit.
        • Up x 1
        • easy enough to take care of I think...is player in outfit? yes then gain the outfit's ability, if not they don't if they want to leave the outfit to join another they can use theirs etc.
          • Up x 2
          • Yes that was my understanding of how it would work.
  • Outfits could have "devisions" to designate strategic stuff - the "air devision" would have a bonus to air acquisition timers but a dramatic decrease in armor and infantry timers. Same for the "armor devision", the "AA max devision", etc.
    Allow each devision to have it's own waypoint much as a squad does, or make these squad specific properties.
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    • This is a cool idea. You could even add division slots as something that can be unlocked so larger outfits can make better use of their large playerbase.
      • Up x 15
      • Yeah! And maybe players could have that as part of their profile. So some players are specialized as pilots in an air devision, or maybe could gain specific cert options to help that devision.
        • Up x 4
      • Definitely. A large outfit should not be penalized, nor should a small one. Large outfits usually have divisions, small ones are all over the map.

        Outfits shouldn't be penalized for inactive members either. One of the great things in PS1 was coming back to the game and finding you were still in an outfit. If outfits had to constantly be kicking old inactive members this kind of welcoming atmosphere back into the game from people who have left would not exist.
        • Up x 3
    • on the map division waypoint could be a letter inside a marker such as an A for Air, T for tanks, & I for infantry; similar to google maps pinpoint for the location you typed in. or maybe shapes for each type...circle for air...square for tank...solid triangle for infantry.
  • I wish this would get moved up in the timeline as giving long-term goals is what keep people logging in. I hoped for a xp system to make outfit upgrades, and even a resource banking system to gather massive resources for outfit vehicles and weapons geared around larger scale team play (like larger aircraft for troop transport, radars to reveal enemy locations on a small area, or deployable structures to provide emire benefits like enemy movement on the main map, or a mass anywhere-accessible spawn point, things that you only see once an hour/day/week/month from the sheer amount of resources needed but give us goals to defend/attack and change small things)
    • Up x 6
  • Anarchy Online did something like this for outfit/faction rewards
  • No. This one will make people join the biggest outfits for best benefits (they'll also advance faster), making big outfits even bigger and small outfits even smaller.
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    • I can't stress this enough. I'm in a very small outfit of personal friends, and this would force us to merge wth a larger blob of players to stay competitive.
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      • On the contrary, i think larger outfits should be rewarded for keeping a large playerbase and definitely have advantages over a small blob of friends.
        • Down x 5
        • Up x 1
    • What about the idea above where the exp earned could be divided by the total members to give you a score/per person. Then use this in a way to lvl the outfit,that way the playing field would be level for all.
      • Up x 2
      • For those who mentioned inactive players etc have it only be affected by the players online @ the time so if your outfit has 2000 total but only 100 are online you'd gain the same amount as one w/ 500 total & 100 online...so it balances out obviously being in a bigger ( which should theoretically be more teamwork-oriented gameplay going on) will still get good gains but not punishing smaller ones due to having less members total. Another possibility could be to merge the divisions mechanic mentioned above w/ this function for smaller to "join" a bigger outfit but still maintain their individuality as a group of friends playing together.
  • I like the idea, but am wary that this would just aid in the conglomeration of mega-outfits to get as many certs as possible. As a smaller outfit leader that is hoping to grow, this could end up crippling any desire of people to join us. However, still like the idea.
    • Up x 9
  • For the sake of smaller outfits, a weekly cap of potential outfit xp will be needed. If not, not only zerg guilds will acquire their unlocks at an insane rate but players will be even more tempted to join such outfits over smaller ones.
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    • Down x 1
  • I am not sure i like the idea of game changing benefits i.e. reduced timers or extra resoucres, xp etc.. to me that would just make huge outfits that much more powerful. What I could get behind are fluff items.
    1. Additional rank titles.
    2. Emotes like salute, stand at attention etc..
    3. Cosmetic items like berets, patches, and decals.
    • Up x 25
    • My outfit would like to have a dance emote, thank you. <3 :D
      • Up x 7
      • /em cabbagepatch Let's make it happen
        • Up x 3
        • Oh dear... I read that and immediately starting doing the Cabbage patch in my chair. #showingmyage
  • Maybe have two trees - a gameplay tree and a customisation tree. Each rank gives one point in each, allowing both visual customisation with things that cannot be bought with SC (to give outfit identity) and gameplay upgrades (to make outift play more effective).
    • Up x 9
    • I kind of have to agree w/ the overall game-changing benefits possibly being too much gain for bigger outfits & less useful for smaller ones...maybe a cosmetic pt every lvl & a play boost every 5 so it's more about customizing your outift then it is about powergaming, but still giving you some benefits to tailor your outfit for specific roles etc.

    • I am all in support of customisation perks that only available to outfit members if their outfit reaches certain lvl. I am missing visual unity on the battlefield, but want to be more specific here, rather than having special decal or helmet, I would go for whole body armor customisation, maybe allow a bit of creativity by the outfit leader or designated member, like online constructor "make your own armor".
  • I don't see the point of that. I would like to design my own outfit decal, but benefits... no thanks, that should be the player's choice.
  • What bonuses do those of us who fight singly get from this system? Or shall our contributions be diminished over time in favor of (even more) advantages that those in outfits have? If you have to give out more useless cruft (badges, decals, other shiny things for idiots to fawn over) that is perfectly fine by me, but don't give even more advantages to those who fight in zerg packs than the rest of us.
    • Down x 5
    • I've posted on this subject
      here: http://www.planetside-universe.com/showpost.php?p=870941&postcount=297
      and here: http://www.planetside-universe.com/showpost.php?p=873036&postcount=390

      I believe outfit xp is really needed and I agree that if handled poorly will unfairly favour large outfits.

      Outfit xp should only ever be earned through defending our territory, through actions inside our SOI. Be it defending gens, repairing turrets, recapping compromised capture points, killing attackers, Gal drops into our SOI etc. These are actions that large outfits seem incapable of doing, because there's no certs in it. But until medium-large outfits start defending territory we're just going to be zerging empty bases and leaving our bases for the enemy to zerg capture back.

      In turn Outfit purchases need to be significant enough to warrant the slower cert gain and the need for organising an effective defense strategy. That would be things like the driver/gunner MBT, the HBT, the Liberator, Orbital strikes, Outfit owned bases etc

      defense is for outfit XP to buy outfit only vehicles, weapons, vehicle abilites that are heavily teamwork related etc
      attack is for higher cert gain to upgrade those outfit only purchases.

      In many respects smaller outfits can earn a lot more outfit XP by working closely together and defending key places than a whole lot of people in a zerg outfit running around randomly inside their base. Outfit XP can be the medium to promote smart organised small-medium sized squad play.

      Errata: there is no genhold mechanic in the game currently ( or even mention in the roadmap ), once more of the traditional PS1 Specops activities get introduced, I would favour those styles of attacking the enemy as earning outfit XP as well.

      Well the solo player gets more certs per hour than an outfit player as it lol. The smart solo player doesn't need more benefits. I play solo alot and my only complaint is that on cert gain alone I have no reason to join an outfit, in a game like Planetside that is not right.
      • Up x 5
    • I've posted on this subject
      here: http://www.planetside-universe.com/showpost.php?p=870941&postcount=297
      and here: http://www.planetside-universe.com/showpost.php?p=873036&postcount=390

      I believe outfit xp is really needed and I agree that if handled poorly will unfairly favour large outfits.

      Outfit xp should only ever be earned through defending our territory, through actions inside our SOI. Be it defending gens, repairing turrets, recapping compromised capture points, killing attackers, Gal drops into our SOI etc. These are actions that large outfits seem incapable of doing, because there's no certs in it. But until medium-large outfits start defending territory we're just going to be zerging empty bases and leaving our bases for the enemy to zerg capture back.

      In turn Outfit purchases need to be significant enough to warrant the slower cert gain and the need for organising an effective defense strategy. That would be things like the driver/gunner MBT, the HBT, the Liberator, Orbital strikes, Outfit owned bases etc

      defense is for outfit XP to buy outfit only vehicles, weapons, vehicle abilites that are heavily teamwork related etc
      attack is for higher cert gain to upgrade those outfit only purchases.

      In many respects smaller outfits can earn a lot more outfit XP by working closely together and defending key places than a whole lot of people in a zerg outfit running around randomly inside their base. Outfit XP can be the medium to promote smart organised small-medium sized squad play.

      Errata: there is no genhold mechanic in the game currently ( or even mention in the roadmap ), once more of the traditional PS1 Specops activities get introduced, I would favour those styles of attacking the enemy as earning outfit XP as well.

      Well the solo player gets more certs per hour than an outfit player as it lol. The smart solo player doesn't need more benefits. I play solo alot and my only complaint is that on cert gain alone I have no reason to join an outfit, in a game like Planetside that is not right.
      • Up x 2
  • A warning.

    With certain certs and certain shop items you can earn power, you can hit harder and be more durable than a newly born br1. This is not a good development and is only acceptable if it is limited. So, this development shouldn't exp-and on that.
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    • I think that if you carry the notion that you can only play one class at a time and a new player should be able to go toe to toe with a kitted out player you still have the ability to add stuff that enhances the game experience of the person who has been playing for longer. I'm not saying BR1, but someone with a week or two of certs.

      I'm not going to experience the game as a BR1 many more times, I doubt you will either. BR30's can get spawn camped and lib farmed just as readily as a BR1, it happens across the board in PS2.

      I don't agree that a br1 who has invested no time or SC into their character should be the number one demographic to design the game around.

      Additionally, people should be encouraged to join an outfit. I didn't say forced, but if they want to experience the game for the massive, social and combined arms elements that are iconic of PS2, an outfit is where they're most likely to find that. An outfit that specializes in the playstyle they are aspiring to is an even better place for them to go and will put them in touch with like-minded individuals who can bring their game to a new level.
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  • As long as the bonuses don't give them direct combat advantages, I love this idea
    • Up x 7
  • I dunno - I like the idea of giving people who cooperate bonuses for doing so, but just going out and mindlessly killing isn't necessarily "cooperating." Tie rewards to accomplishing real tactical goals and you may have something.

    Also; just make sure that people who aren't in Outfits (because not everyone wants to participate in them) aren't missing out in anything unique.
    • Up x 5
  • I know E911 SolTech TR the many people who joined did so to make a difference. We're over 700 members (to be culled after we get some "last logged on" stats). We are the tutorial. We provide basic training for our troops so people know how to play the game so they have fun, keep playing, and possibly spend some station cash. We're constantly pushing and looking for new tactics and strategies and combinations.

    I'm in favor of outfit rewards because this hard work deserves to be rewarded. It makes sense that if I've put tons of hours into the game, I'm invested. I want a return on that investment to give me the tools I need so I can keep paying it forward to my fellow outfit members and empire. I want there to be an incentive for outfit members to keep working towards that common goal, and outfit specific bonuses will be more effective than cosmetic items because they offer a greater return on investment.

    I don't want to take away anything from smaller outfits, but I don't want to be restricted because we made it our mission to offer an inviting atmosphere for people who want to play in larger, organized platoons without getting screamed at or demeaned. We're not all zergfits.
    • Up x 2
  • This was a fantastic idea in WoW and it will be a fantastic idea in PS2 if properly implemented.

    Benefits could include:
    • XP boosts
    • Resource boosts
    • Spawn Time reductions
    • Reload Time reductions
    • Vehicle Cooldown reductions
    • Temporary weapon unlocks
    • One-Time cert boosts
    • Allowing officers to design a "uniform" that members can adopt with a single click
    • AOE "battle standards" that confer benefits to outfit members in a given area
    • Unlocking of abilities like the ability to make a custom outfit logo or the ability to display your logo on a captured base
    • Better coordination tools like outfit-wide waypoints, ability for outfit officers to draw on the map...
    The mind reels with possibilities.
    • Down x 10
    • Up x 6
    • No.
      Reason, this would shove around the "little guys" and newbie players to much.
      Not no to all of the above by the way... but ill reply to main post for an explination on my own ideas. (i dont join anny outfit becous most are just not up to par with me and i hate dumbing down for others.
      • Up x 1
    • NO! Don't force people to be part of an outfit just to have the same basic game mechanics as everyone else. That's a really bad idea right there! The benefits shall be only due to team work and non of this over powered nonsens!

      Now we're talking! Planet Side 2 is large scale combat and it has great potential for large scale team play if only the dev crew would give us the proper in-game Tools!
      • Down x 1
  • Cool idea !
  • These. Very much these.

    No need for bonus XP nonsense, but additional tools to coordinate would be very, very welcome.

    A shared, annotated "Outfit map" would be wonderful.
    • Up x 4

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