Why playing Anti-Air is a horrible experience

Discussion in 'Vehicle Discussion' started by Oddzball, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. Yeah, I rather regret picking up the skyguard right now.

    Light aircraft generally escape pretty easily unless they get too close in the first place. Liberators tend to either fly higher than the gun's range or just straight up outgun me. I do nothing to other vehicles and can't hit most infantry as the gun won't go low enough to aim at them well, though I did manage to kill one guy that made the mistake of standing on a box.

    Skyguards don't do ANYTHING well except make themselves a target, and we don't do anything at all if there is no air in the area. Is there any other vehicle configuration that has that issue?

    I love supporting people, I really do, but its not a lot of fun getting little to no xp for doing it. Kinda need them to make my lightning even better.

    I can't even team up with other skyguards. I'm usually the only one out there.
  2. Yeah kind of reminds me of all my time in Planetside 1 as a tank driver who never got jack for driving his gunner around completely annihilating everyone because I could drive through trees and rocks and not get stuck at full speed. I only got credit for road kills. I was fine with that because I'm not selfish.

    Yeah. Huge xp from Base caps. Base caps that he really helps facilitate by keeping enemy aircraft away from their sunderers and tanks. But that's not rewarding enough for baby's ego. You're wrong by the way. They can kill Lots of stuff if they aren't trying to play by themselves.

    Planetside isn't a game that supports the "I WANNA DO IT MAH WAY AND WIN!" style of game play. It just doesn't. It's too big. Put 5 skyguards spread out across a battlefield with support. Watch the air kills roll in, and then watch there be no air. Or like when tanks destroy all the enemy's armor, and they stop bringing armor. Sure you can shell infantry, if you can reach them and not get blown up.

    Everyone crying about AA forgets about everything else.
    • Up x 1
  3. In PS1 you got XP if your gunner got a kill. More if your gunner was in your squad. I know, I was a crack Magrider driver as well. Survived one battle lasting 2 hours where I got 2 tank kills as driver/gunner and my gunner got literally dozens of kills. When we died we were worth something like 4500 XP apiece.

    EVERYBODY gets huge XP from Base Caps. The Engineer gets huge XP from base caps. The HA gets huge XP from Base Caps. The Medic gets huge XP from Base Caps. The Engineer also gets huge XP from repairing vehicles, deploying ammo, and killing people. The Medic gets huge XP from healing people, ressing people, and killing people. The HA gets huge XP from killings lots of people and blowing up tanks. The AA gets... a few XP from the few planes he manages to shoot down. But hey, he also gets huge XP from the base cap, so he can feel special (just like everybody else)! This is fair to you? This rewards people to play AA? Or does it, maybe, drive people away from playing AA because they want to get similar rewards to what the other players get?

    The point is, in any other role you get a reward. If you're driving a tank you'll get XP for killing the other tanks, killing the random infantry, and when your tank blows up you'll get more XP for joining the fight on foot yourself. The Sundy driver gets XP for deploying his AMS, supplying weapon ammo, repairing vehicles, and transporting people, and again he can join the fray.

    As AA you don't get very much XP because the kills are few. But I tell you what, you want to really level the XP playing field? Lets bring back XP rewards like PS1, where the longer you were alive and the more kills you get then the more XP you are worth when you get killed! Make a pilot worth as much XP as he's earned since his last respawn, that's the ticket! Then you'll see the AA really roll out to get the Pilots who are 30 and 0 (or 50/0, or 70/0) from their rocketspam. Of course, you'll have to fix the kill assignments so the AA gets credit for the a**hat pilots who bail when their plane is at 5% life and suicide themselves, but that should be doable. It'll be pilot lottery out there!

    Or, you know, you could make playing AA be slightly more rewarding than watching Moss grow. What I suggest is that an hour of flying should earn you roughly the same XP as an hour of Tank Driving as an hour of Foot Zerging as an hour of AA. I'd even be OK with Flying and Tanking giving a bit more XP since they require resources. What we have now is flying nets you lot of XP, driving nets you more or less the same as foot infantry and less than flying, and AA nets you far less than doing virtually any other role in the game (despite the fact that the only effective AA has a resource cost just like the planes do). This makes the game much less fun for people playing AA, because they want to get more certs and improve their characters capabilities just as much as the Pilots do. And what is your response to this lopsided reward system? "Just get used to it and be happy you get to have the base cap XP." I mean, really, if you took away the XP that pilots got for rocketspamming there would be a virtual revolt (but, hey, pilots don't need XP for RocketSpamming 70 guys, the fact that they brought victory to their side is reward enough, isn't it?). If you took away the XP that Medics get for ressing they woundn't even bother. But make it so AA doesn't get very much XP from the get-go and somehow this is OK?
    • Up x 1
  4. As an A2A pilot who regularly goes on 50+ killstreaks, this would be absolutely hilarious. You're talking like 10-20k or more exp from one kill. I'm not sure if it would be a little overboard though, perhaps reducing it to a percentage. It would be nice if it was across the board, getting an extra reward for shooting down that guy that was wreaking havoc on your team.
  5. I play with 2 other people with HA Anti Air and we show up to a ESF infested area and rake in XP while not dying.

    I think it's a bit unfair that one person can cause so much damage through rocket pods but it takes multiple people to stop them. However, when you are running around with an AA team, you will clear the skies.

    for the best experience in Planetside 2, join an Outfit who will actually do things together.
  6. A thought:
    Perhaps have it so that if you have dealt enough damage to count as an assist, but they get away (don't die) and leave the general area (say, move more than a few hexes away from you) then you get a lump of XP for it, like a successfully scared off aircraft thing, make it a bit less than a kill, and make assists on aircraft the same XP as kills (basically make them count as kills)
  7. Note that my comment on this was definitely meant to be tongue in cheek. You'd have to make it some percentage of the XP earned, with some upper bound cap, or you'd have people worth exponentially more XP as time went on. The main problem I have with this kind of "Bounty" system is that you have no idea whether the guy you're going up against is the RedBaron or Snoopy, and getting lucky shouldn't bring super-duper-extra rewards (though sometimes I wish it did; would make my sniper hunting rage fests, where I tear off for ten minutes trying to find that sniper that killed me a couple times, so much more profitable).
  8. Cert : Unlock ratio is horrible for any AA unlock.

    ESF's have way too much power given to them. There should be bullet drop on their primary weapons. Rocket Pods should have less blast radius, maybe near to none.

    Liberators are defenseless. Tail guns are horrible. Just horrible. Don't get me started on Galaxies... You can shoot those fat targets as soon as they are drawn on your screen, since there is no bullet drop on ESF primaries. And when those get close, those horrible weapons do nothing to scare ESF's away...

    At least ground AA's have the capability of scaring them away. But that brings me to the initial thing I've said: Cert : Unlock ratio is horrible for any AA unlock. After they "fix" ESF's, give Liberators & Galaxies a better chance at survival, then they should buff AA weapons, and tweak their costs.
  9. It would help if the 3rd person pivot point was 10 meters above the Skyguard so looking up don't have the *** end of the skyguard filling up the entire screen.
  10. 1. rocket pods are exceptional amongst ESF weapons, and are stupidly omni-effective

    2. you're missing the point. You cannot balance a more mobile unit to 'scare away' its target, because its target cannot get away unless the more mobile unit can't kill it. Which of course means there would be no incentive to run in the first place.

    3. I never said anything of the sort. Experience is stupid in a lot of ways, like the galaxy pilots I mentioned before who can contribute a lot and get virtually nothing. AA is fun to me, I think I'm probably the only person who enjoys using the skyguard. Coincidentally it's also the only AA I think needs improvement, specifically to its projectile travel speed. MAX AA borders on overpowered, unless their other weapons are just far worse intentionally. Infantry missiles are fine, base turrets are fine and serve as an example of decent projectile speed.
    • Up x 1
  11. Gonna be a long post. If you choose to engage in discussion, please read it fully.

    Also, TL;DR: Split rocketpods into AP and HE groups, tiny buffs to AA, make AA more rewarding - people are stupid and lazy.

    Earned 59 certs in 1 hour doing nothing but playing HA shooting down aircraft while defending Eisa Tech plant from both NC and VS ESF's and Libby's. It's not exactly hard, just nobody ever does the damn job because it's not as thrilling as mowing down infantry with a minigun. People refuse to look around and understand the different roles within each battle. Instead they just keep doing the same thing everyone else is and camp the doors, hoping to get a kill. They then sit and complain about getting anally reamed by something they refuse to fight.

    You can't just do it all yourself, of course. You have to have others willing to help you out. One or two HA's or flak turrets aren't going to be noticeable during battle. You have to have a couple of people that aren't completely self-absorbed to help generate enough threat. Going back to my earlier battle, there were about 8-10 people total manning and repairing the AA turrets and about 3 spewing AA missiles. After about 30 mins, there was nothing left to shoot, and the AA'ers got bored and switched to more conventional roles. We had scared away or shot down all of the enemy airpower in the hex with just a tiny group. Afterwards, any stray flier that decided to try something during the rest of the battle quickly learned the error of their ways.

    I have to admit, even as an avid ESF flyer, that the rocket pods probably should have been split into 2 different variants. AP with very little AoE and good armor damage, and HE with larger AoE, less dmg, and very little armor/structure dmg. That way, ESFs would have some more loadout diversification as well as role specialization. As they are now, the rockets are a bit too effective inside and outside their role once you think about how much damage they can do in just a single burst to any target on the ground or in the air.

    That being said, I can agree with the AA turrets getting a buff in survivability, maybe a tiny buff to damage or accuracy. The HA's AA launcher could use a small buff to lock range as well. However, it may just be me getting the annoyed at having an airplane that you can clearly see the insignias but not be able to lock.

    The Skyguard needs a little more work. The angle of the gun is a bit too restricting and the rounds seem a bit slow and underwhelming in DPS against intended targets. Widen the angle by about 15 degrees upwards and 5-10 degrees downwards and you have a good start. Increase projectile speed slightly and boost the dmg per round by at least 10%, and you have a a fully capable AA unit that is skill dependent and still acceptably effective at engaging/suppressing infantry. Maybe they could even think about giving them a flak weapon as well, might be another cool tree to spec in. Make the standard Skyguard an anti-bomber unit, and the flakker an anti-ESF unit.

    I love the idea of giving XP rewards for airspace denial. I can't tell you how many times I have been peppered with flak or been chased by seeking missiles that completely screwed my attack runs and saved the enemy soldiers a great deal of heartbreak. Seems an appropriate enough reward for actually contributing meaningfully to the battle and saving some reinforcements. It might even entice more players into the underrepresented role during battles. I could see 1 xp per % of dmg done being quite nice, along with some kind of anti-air chain bonus for chasing multiple units off successfully.

    I know how devastating air power can be to any unit on the field, and I know how frustrating good AA can be to the effective employment of air power as well. The current equation needs some work, but it's not the absolute ****-storm it's being made out to be.
    • Up x 1
  12. In my humble opinion the COMBAT/DAMAGE/UTILITY of AA vs Air units is pretty balanced, but I think we can all agree the reward for doing so is garbage, and most will only go grab that AA max set up they havent certed with 1 off hand aa gun as a last resort to just f*#&$^@ deter those fliers that have killed you 4 times in a row.

    I think a lot of good opinions were given here, and as someone who enjoys max playing, and hates flying I can say myself that air units are annoying, and are not much of a threat unless in number....

    ...however I am not inclined to spend my time spending infantry resources and certs on a max to spend 60 solid seconds firing at air units just so they can nose-down and punch it and leave escape leaving me with absolutely 0 reward for my time, resources, and effort spent.

    It's hard to balance things like engineer/medic xp vs troop/killin xp, but I think they could certainly toss a bone to people hitting aircraft in vain for 1-3 minutes only to have them fly off to repair/restock and return just to start all over again.

    I think the best option would be treat hits on aircraft as individual ticks of xp much like a medic or engineer gets for heals/repairs. An aircraft is a different animal entirely from anything else. You F*#& a prowler up enough, you can run that tank down and finish it off if you're diligent and get your hard earned xp...

    You spend time lighting up a slew of enemy aircraft and force them out of the fight (victory in a real world situation) but you get nothing in return.


    The balance between air and AA imo is balanced, but the reward for deterring anti air is non-existant and I believe the option of adding xp per shot on hitting aircraft is a good solution. In the game as it stands, the biggest FU#* YOU on risk vs reward is when you spend your time/resources/effort/attention on deterring aircraft only to get absolutely nothing in return other then the battle advantage which likely didnt matter anyways. Hitting/running off an aircraft should offer a reward because the odds of you bringing down an aircraft at all are so small.
  13. OP: your problem is that you started thinking in terms of roleplaying. That is Planetside 1 logic and it doesn't apply here anymore because everyone can (and will) unlock everything.

    You use it whenever you need it. You don't sit in it for 3 hours thinking you're going to be farming XP. It's never going to be an XP farming machine either. It wasn't XP farming in beta when it killed aircraft in half a second and it won't be if it kills them even faster. Why? People will simply stop flying.
  14. Nope.
    1 HA unguided missile will take out 99% HP of a standard ESF.
    Lets see 1 HA missile take out 99% HP of a MBT.
  15. +
    You do the math.
  16. Ark

    No more guided AT launcher. The "guided" part was removed. :(

    It doesn't take 5 hits to kill an ESF...it takes 2.
  17. Ark

    Double post. Please delete.
  18. I meant to say homing there. Or is that what you meant they removed? In that case I'd be confused why the weapon even existed.
  19. Ark

    Yeah, they removed the guided/homing portion of the tank-mounted system (the infantry guided missle still exists).

    *EDIT* Sorry! I was looking at your post and thinking of the MBT missile, not the HA unit. My mistake.
  20. Oh, I was talking about the shoulder fired one the HA gets. I think that's what he was talking about, anyway.

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